boogieman
-
Posts
246 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by boogieman
-
-
Finally got the time in my shop.
Don't I feel stupid. Problem solved.
Started adding spacers between the axle flange and the brake drum. When it was out 1/4"
everything turned freely.
Then I realized the spacer is 1/4" thick.
Careful inspection revealed a faint outline of a circle on the spacer that aligns
perfectly with the hole in the axle flange for access to the axle mounting nuts.
The spacer goes between the flange and brake drum not between the drum and wheel. DOH!
Old dog, new tricks and the like. Mopar NEVER used such a spacer there and I obviously
forgot where it was upon tear-down.
Ok. Let me have it. I deserve whatever you got to say.
-
The rear has no internal clips to hold it together. The axle shafts bolt directly to a flange welded of the end of the axle housing.
End play is .005" to.008" and well within specs.
The axle bearing is a press fit on the axle shaft. Not an axle or bearing issue or problem.
Was going to re-look at everything today but haven't made it yet.
-
My oldest son is a car guy too. Waiting on him to look it over.
As of last week he already has 225 hours of over-time this year.
I may be waiting a while.
Thanks for all the suggestions. So far nothing has fit exactly.
Going to start again from scratch tomorrow.
-
Parking brake released. if it were engaged the drums would no go on due to expanded shoes.
My car has a standard Chrysler/Jeep/Dana 8.25" rear end. No locating bumps, or keys, or splines, or tabs or
anything to specifically locate the drums.
The rear locks-up with either drum snugged down to either end, or side, of the rear axle.
The adjusters are as they were before, not touched. The drums fit over the shoes as they should with
ever so slight friction.
The drums have not been dropped, kicked, beat upon, nor abused in any manner to my knowledge.
Not by me anyhow, and I live alone.
I even checked with the guys in auto shop class today. They were all stumped too. Seems none of them
ever encountered such a scenario either. And these guys are all about my age too.
-
My bad Wayne. The car was on the ground. Was a few days between that and the lock-up issue
when I put it back on the stands.
Yes I changed the U-bolts but they are the exact same diminsions of the old rusted ones. Besides, they are inside the backing plates and not an issue.
The only bolt possible to interfere is the rear control arm mount. The bracket is close to the backing plate
on the axle so the nut is on the inside closest to the backing plate but not in contact.
Clears by an inch.
Didn't change the rear shoes. They are in great shape. Apparently new before I got the car in Oct.
Just to make sure, I just now checked to see if the backing plate might have been bent or mis-aligned somehow.
Since the axle never came out of the car or touched the shop floor, that is ruled out too.
For what its worth, the only change I made, other than bushings, was to move the left brake line at the wheel
to a location outside the U-bolt. It ran behing the bolts until I moved it. The right side was correct.
Baring something I have yet to think of or someone suggest, I might have to take my 3# shop hammer to the
outer edge of the backing plates and drive that lip slightly further inboard if the drums are dragging there.
It is possible that while wrestling with the rusty bolts during removal something got slightly bent.
I don't see it but it might be the problem. I'm running out of ideas.
-
Using washers the same thickness as the brake drum hub, then the wheel spacer,
then thick washers to simulate the wheels there is no issue on either side.
Only when the drums are installed does it lock-up or rub, or interfere with something.
Replaced all the rear bushings. Front and rear of the springs,
control rods both front and rear, spring isolators both upper and lower,
upper and lower sway bar bushings.
The bushings are all exactly the same dimensions as the removed ones.
If they were not the same the spring would not sit in the pocket at the
front mount, or the rear hangers fit on either side of the rear bushing.
The rear axle is located by the center-bolt of the spring pack. Only one place for it to go.
The tires clear the springs by almost 2".
Same exact wheels as removed. The fronts have not been off.
Measured the rear wheels and tires. Exactly the same dimensions, offset, tire diameter,
tread width, back-spacing, even the same part number.
The brake drum locks-up when installed using lug nuts barely hand tight
with no wheel or tire installed.
The problem is in the brake drum, brake shoe, backing plate, and/or wheel spacer area
or some combination of all these.
I drove the car into my shop and now can't get it out due to the locking-up problem.
Darndest thing I have encountered recently.
Why is there interference now where there was none before?
-
The shoes were not removed. They are in the same position and location as before.
The car was and still is on jack stands.
My car has an open, non "sure-grip" in Mopar speak, rear end. When one wheel is turned,
the opposite wheel turns in the opposite direction regardless of trans gear selection.
The spacers are on the outside of the brake drum just as before.
Installing them behind the drums will space the drum outward by that amount and the
drums and shoes will not align.
Have checked and double checked for interference marks on the back and insides of the drums,
on the outer edge of the shoes, and the backing plate. Nothing stands out as a problem.
Which leads me back to the issue at hand.
As NOTHING was changed, altered, modified, removed, nothing added, what is going on!
Unbolt and remove components, remount as before, locked-up!
I may have to resort to using spray dye-chem to see where the interference is, but there
is no logical reason for this to happen in the first place. I shouldn't have to do anything.
Appreciate all the feed-back but I am still stymied.
-
With the wheels off and brake drums on, the axles do turn until the lug nuts are hand tight.
Then everything locks up, no turn.
Shoes dragging slightly as they should.
Not an e-brake issue or the drums would not go over the shoes.
Same drums I took off, same spacers, same shoes, same wheels, same everything except
spring and suspension bushings.
My car is a '79. Standard Chrysler/Jeep 8.25 axle and brake components.
There is no keyway on this axle.
The axle bolts to the flange on the axle housing. Axles were not removed.
Seals and bearings in good usable condition.
The drums sit flush with the axle flange. I measured the wheel stud lengths and the center hub
of the axle where it protrudes beyond the drum face.
Measured again with the wheel spacer on. All exactly the same.
Looks like I'll be calling Jon tomorrow.
I'm stumped.
-
Getting to the bottom of this mystery but no definite answers.
Tried every combination of brake drums, wheel spacers, and wheels on both sides of the rear.
Same results any way tried. With the lug nuts hand tight the rear locks-up.
Finally found and used large washers the same thickness of the brake drum mounting flanges
and thick washers to simulate the wheels when mounted.
Everything turns freely in that configuration. Put the brake drums back on and it locks-up again.
Checking the drums against each other they measure the same.
No visible interference between the drums and the backing plates, or the drums and brake shoes.
The axle shafts have minimal and acceptable end play so no movement there.
Both axle seals intact and no leakage there.
I did use brake cleaner and an air gun to clean the accumulated residue from the shoes,
backing plates, and drums, so no changes there.
Still locking-up with the drums in place. What have I missed or overlooked?
Any thoughts as to why the drums have gone south?
I am at a loss again.
I did discover the need for the wheel spacers though. Without them the lug nuts bottom out on
the shoulder of the wheel stud. The spacer moves the wheel outward so this is not an issue.
-
Stump the experts today.
I have owned and worked on over 300 cars in my 50+ driving years.
Ran across a situation the other day I can' figure out.
I removed the rear wheels, wheel spacers and brake drums to disassemble the rear suspension
and replace all the bushings, etc.
Put it all back together in reverse order.
Brake drums, wheel spacers then wheels.
Started the car, put it in reverse, no movement. Locked up tight.
Emergency brake released. Checked and rechecked.
Wheels won't turn even with the trans in neutral.
Removed the wheels. Axles turn freely. Mounted the wheels without spacers. No turn.
Remounted the wheels with spacers. No turn.
Wheels off, axle turns again.
With the wheels and spacers mounted just hand tight, no turn.
I am at a loss having never seen this in 50+ years of cars.
Nothing replaced, nothing added, nothing changed, no turn.
What am I missing?
The car looks odd suspended in mid-air unable to move under it's own power.
Boogieman
-
Except for the dual rear axles, I'll take one.
-
Used a small amount of WD40 for lubrication.
My oldest son came over yesterday afternoon to help in the reassembly. All went smoothly and well.
Get it all buttoned-up and back on the wheels and on the ground about 8:30 last night.
Have to do some more checking as the car is still 3/4" to 1" lower on the left. And every contact
point between the frame and rear suspension has been replaced. That needed to be done anyhow.
Not sure where to look now.
Boogieman
-
How true, how true.
Suspension parts arrived Saturday afternoon.
I got a 7/8" barrel/ drum sanding kit and cleaned and polished the insides of the
spring eyes.
Long story short. With a little axle bearing grease, my son and I had the bushings
installed in less than 10 minutes using only a piece of aluminum plate as a spacer
and my 6" bench vise.
Did them during half-time of the early NFL ball game.
Yesterday I got the control rod bushings replaced. Only took about 15 minutes. Used
the drum sanding kit on them too.
Can't imagine how this could have been easier.
Starting reassembly later today.
Boogieman
-
Still waiting on suspension components. Unbelievable how dirty and gritty everything under the back of the car is. Cleaning everything left an 1/8" coating of dust on the car and everything in my shop.
Took the better part of yesterday just to clean-up the shop, my work benches, and desk areas.
Starting on the hog trough cleaning, sealing, and painting today while waiting on my parts order.
Nice day though with expected highs in the mid 60's through this coming week.
-
Got everything fully dis-assembled last night. Only sheered-off one other bolt. The left front upper
control arm bolt sheered off at the end of the turned-down area where the threads are. Going to have
to cut the shoulder area back and weld on a grade 8 bolt for threads. Not difficult, but irritating.
Everything going back together with anti-seize so the next owner doesn't have to deal with this issue.
In the process of cleaning everything and waiting on the new bushings.
-
Years ago I replaced all the bushings, front and rear, in my '68 Charger R/T with polyurethane ones.
The ride stiffened-up considerably. But the stiffness, squeaking, and "twitchiness" of the ride and
handling became too much to enjoy the car except under hard driving conditions. I didn't want to have
to drive that way constantly so vowed to not go there again.
#2897 is a GT type of car and I want to maintain the ride qualities inherent in the design and
production, limited though they may be. This is a cruiser type of car for me and I want to enjoy it as much as possible. So stock replacements is the direction I am headed. I doubt I will ever push the car to its limits anyway. Appreciate the heads-up though.
Ordering all new rear bushings including sway bar and torque arms today.
Been there and done that many times before.
-
While starting to clean the springs for re-installation I noticed something. Seems the end bushings,
especially the front one on the drivers side, was dry and cracked. Checking further the rubber wasn't
supporting the bolt sleeve and was actually loose inside the bushing. When under load the inner sleeve was displaced by over 1/2" letting the car tilt to the drivers side. The passenger side was
deteriorated but not to the same extent.
So my son and I removed all the spring bushings for replacement. Any suggestions who is the best
supplier?
And since we snapped-off one of the u-bolts I got a set of new ones for safety sake.
Going to be very cold here for the next 2-3 days or so, highs in the low 30's, lows in the mid teens,
wind chill in single digits, so I'll have to wait on parts anyway.
I'm fairly confident that new bushings and swapping the springs side-for-side will correct the left
leaning stance.
We carefully measured the wheels. Exactly the same offset and back spacing on both. Possibly the
completely shot spring bushings, along with the 1/2" body anomaly will account for the seemingly
offset rear axle location. Going to find out for sure.
-
Thursday my son came over. I had him take a look at everything from a different perspective. All his
double checking of what I had found and he had no solid idea either.
Until he measured the rear inner wheel tubs to body and found the body to be 1/2" wider on the RR than the LR.
How that happened is pure speculation but accounts for the majority of the wheel/tire offset to the
left issue.
So in a matter of 2 hours we completely removed the springs, sway bar and all attending components.
Only broke one U-bolt in the process.
The springs are as close to the same as possible. Same length, same arch and angles on the ends, and
same amount of deflection under load. Going to clean and reinstall everything today if possible. Going to swap them side to side and re-check everything again. If there is still an issue the process of
doing whatever after that will be easy as everything will be clean and the process will be easier to
accomplish the second time around if needed. More than willing to repeat the procedure to get it right. Appreciate the input. I'll report back with the results.
-
Happy new year.
Yesterday I finally had the chance to get the rear of my car up on jack stands to check the rear. Lots of interesting situations here.
Measuring from axle flange to the body at wheel opening I find the rear-end to be offset 1/2" to the
drivers side. Any one else run into this?
Looking closely at the front of the rear spring location I see two mounting holes for the front bolt
through the spring eye and hanger. On the drivers side the spring is located in the lower hole. On the passenger side the bolt is in the upper hole. All indications point to this being the way it was built.
I find this odd. This by itself can't account for the left rear of the car being about 3/4" lower than the right at ride height.
Relocating the left side bolt to the upper hole will lower that side even more.
Relocating the right side to the lower hole will raise that side.
Just the opposite of what I need to address the rear ride-height differential.
Measured the total spring arch side to side shows almost exactly the same dimension on both sides.
Pulling the wheels I found a 3/16" steel wheel spacer of both sides of the car. Any idea the purpose?
The Mag 500 wheels are not original to the car. Required for clearance?
Are the spacers originally required for the steel wheels originally on the car? I do have those wheels.
Checked the rear brakes carefully.
Shoes in great condition. Appear to be the originals.
Brake drums in great condition. Very little wear, no scoring or glazing.
No axle seal or wheel cylinder leakage at all.
Definitely a Dana 44/ Mopar 8-1/4" rear-end. I'm very familiar with the 8-1/4" rear.
Going to be cold here until next week so I have time to decide what's up with the rear and plan a
course of action to rectify.
Possibly a set of over-load shocks to correct the LR sag. Maybe rebuild the spring pack with an
additional leaf or two per side.
Is it possible to swap the springs side-to-side? If so, and the LR spring is weaker, this might
address the lower ride height on the left.
Otherwise the frame shows absolutely no signs of rust in the usual places. The undercoating applied
when built obviously did it's job well.
While on the jack stands I plan on a complete stripping of the hog troughs down to metal, resealing,
and painting. Going to add a front drain hole to match the rear ones also.
Any other specific issues I need to address while up in the air?
-
Very interesting.
Boogieman
-
Very nice. Once owned a '77 or '78 Olds 98 in "Firethorn Red Metallic". Possibly the same or very similar color.
-
Same exactly here. Usually don't care for RWL tires but they look great on our cars.
Yours looks lower in front than mine.
Beautiful car. Love the color. Your spread in the background?
If I could I would post a comparison pic. System won't let me.
There is one posted elsewhere in the thread.
-
There is something similar here in Texas. Once a year one of the many local car clubs organizes
"The Texas Loop" which is open to anyone. It is a 900 - 1,000 mile 3 day, 2 night drive through the
state hitting the back roads and interesting sights. My brother has made the trip twice and says it is great. I would love to take my Avanti this year if possible. Guaranteed to be the only one.
-
Even so Jim, the rocker panel appears lower in front than the back. Nice. Bigger tires on the back.
Diecast
in Avanti Pub
Posted
Had an idea the other day. I am looking for a used 1:18 scale model with the
idea of making a roadster type of body style. From my fabrication classes
I realize with the diecast body and the access to metal and forming/metal
shaping equipment at school, I can make this happen. I am seeing a roofless
two-door with a cover over the rear seats. Headrest blisters. Maybe a pair of
small roll bars. Waterfall feature between the seats. Ground effects lower body
work. Lowered suspension. Wheels and tires. Cut-down windshield and side glass.
And another one redone to match my real car. Both painted the same color.
Metallic chocolate brown with tan leather interiors.
Maybe a red/tan or red/red roadster.
I got plenty of time and need a project.
Waiting to hear about a pair now for sale.