As the Avanti turns ...

[James T]

Given the age of the design, it's no suprise that the Avanti's steering is a bit less than precise. It can be improved, however, and here are a few things that helped mine significantly:

- First, determine the condition of all steering parts. My car is a 58K mile 77 model, and still needed new tie

rod ends. These are easily replaced using a tie-rod puller that you can borrow from most parts stores.

- Lubricate the front end, paying special attention to the king pins upper joints to be sure new grease comes

out of them. I had to lightly hammer on the housings a bit while using the grease gun to get this to

occur.

- Adjust the steering box. Using the access hole in the body, loosen the lock nut and then use a screwdriver

to tighten the adjusting screw to reduce clearance on the sector gear. Back off ~90 degrees and tighten

the locknut. You should have the car on jackstands and the steering wheel pointed straight ahead when

performing this adjustment.

- Replace the steering arms with the ones developed for the 84 model. These are shorter than the stock

arms thereby effectively increasing the steering ratio. This may be the biggest improvement of all. The

arms cost about $100, and are pretty simple to replace. I had to use a propane torch to heat up the

housing and hammer out. Depending on time, rust, damage, etc. it can be more or less difficult. Steering

effort increases somewhat, but I personally like it.

- Get a quality front-end alignment. You may need to seek out a shop with some old timers, and

take the alignment specs with you (available here: http://www.studebaker-info.org/text3/avantiWAS.txt)

The net result is less turns of the wheel required to go where you want, noticably less wandering on center, and much improved steering feel. It will never be like a Porsche rack-and-pinion, but it's better.

[WayneC]

Good information, I saved it for future reference, thanks for posting it.

[Pete Rutledge]

Thanks, James, that is good info. I have a wandering '74 and have wondered about the steering box adjustment for some time. Where is that access hole? In the wheel well? And how do you know when you've tightened the adjusting screw enough, before loosening it 90 degrees?

[James T]

Thanks, James, that is good info. I have a wandering '74 and have wondered about the steering box adjustment for some time. Where is that access hole? In the wheel well? And how do you know when you've tightened the adjusting screw enough, before loosening it 90 degrees?

Pete,

The access hole to the steering box is just right of center above the frame in the driver's wheel well. It's pretty obvious once you have the car on jackstands and the wheel removed. It may be covered with overspray from undercoating (mine was), but after scraping that off and shooting a little PB Blaster on the nut and the adjustement screw, they loosened up easily.

The adjustment of the box is simple in principle in that the more you tighten the screw the more you reduce the clearance of the sector gear and the more resistance you will feel in the steering wheel. However, if it's too tight you risk additional wear to the gear. I tightened mine until I felt resistance, then backed off the 90 degrees or 1/4 turn for peace of mind. Not sure if that's technically correct, you would need to measure gear preload to be absolutely sure. Probably close enough. I think it's a good idea to drive the car a bit following your last on-jackstands adjustment to make sure it's to your liking, then re-adjust accordingly if needed. If yours has never been adjusted, you may be suprised how many turns of the screw it takes to meet the point of resistance. Depending on the mileage and wear, I've actually heard of screws going all the way into the box! Not good!

Good luck with it, but be aware that tightening the box alone may not result in the improvement you are seeking. Rube Goldberg may not have been the original designer of Studebaker's steering, but one gets the impression he started with their covered wagon design and 'upgraded' it.

[SBCA96]

Good info .. only things I would add is get some GOOD shocks on the car,

make sure that the tires are good, and add the larger swaybars that are

available from a few sources. This thread on Racing Studebakers might

be of interest to you guys also. I've been pondering more drastic ideas

to be made to the Stude front suspension (and rear).

http://racingstudebakers.com/v-web/bulleti...topic.php?t=888

Tom

Rube Goldberg may not have been the original designer of Studebaker's steering, but one gets the impression he started with their covered wagon design and 'upgraded' it.

Edited February 17, 2007 by SBCA96

[theGman]

Any recommendations about the best shocks?

Thanks, Paul

[GAWen]

I own 1971 Avanti II RQB1600, one of the previous owners had replaced the springs front and rear with Studebaker P/U Truck springs and replaced the shocks with KONI shocks. The cars ride is very firm and extremely precise. I do not know the spec's or part numbers on the parts

Good luck on trying to find the combo that works best for you.

George Wendell, Las Vegas, Nv. (702) 768-6709

[Ray K.]

I recently acquired an '82 Avanti II RBQ3420 and have the following questions:

1. What does RBQ stand for?

2. Is the front suspension the same as it was in 1966, or has it been updated?

3. If it is the same, shouldn't I be running bias-ply tires, which were original equipment in 1966?

The car wanders with radials. I have read that bias tires track straighter and run smoother than radials, although they aren't as good performance-wise. My 1960's-era cars have more play in the steering wheel, but track straighter than the Avanti. I will try the steering box adjustment first, but I am considering switching to bias-ply tires.

Oh, one more:

4. What is a hog-trough?

Thanks-

[jmenacker]

I recently acquired an '82 Avanti II RBQ3420 and have the following questions:

1. What does RBQ stand for?

2. Is the front suspension the same as it was in 1966, or has it been updated?

3. If it is the same, shouldn't I be running bias-ply tires, which were original equipment in 1966?

The car wanders with radials. I have read that bias tires track straighter and run smoother than radials, although they aren't as good performance-wise. My 1960's-era cars have more play in the steering wheel, but track straighter than the Avanti. I will try the steering box adjustment first, but I am considering switching to bias-ply tires.

Oh, one more:

4. What is a hog-trough?

Thanks-

1. I dunno either.

2. Front suspension wasn't updated AFAIK.

3. Our '82 steering was extremely vague when we first got the car. Normally this is caused by worn steering linkages. Our particular problem was the center "bell crank" fitting. If you can get a good look under the car while an assistant turns the steering wheel from lock to lock, any parts moving in a manner that don't contribute to turning the wheels should be replaced.

4. Hog trough is a term used to describe the torque boxes. This is the reinforcing channel running on each side below the door sill. The moonroof drains discharge into the channel. If the channel drainage ports get blocked, then the channels rust from inside out. There is a nice replacement system available that comes in pieces so the body does not need to be entirely removed to replace rusted hog troughs:

Classic Enterprises - Avanti torque box repair

We replaced the passenger side box on our car with one of their stainless steel units. Classic Enterprises were great to deal with and the installation went very well.

Edited February 22, 2007 by jmenacker

[Gunslinger]

When Studebaker built the Avanti, it was designated as Studebaker Model RQ. When the Avanti Motor Corporation was formed, they called the car Model RQ-A. About 1970 when some major upgrades took place (some due to government requirements), there were enough differences to require a model name change, thus the RQ-B.

These differences were either safety related, or appointment upgrades, or mechanical in nature. RQ-A models had low back bucket seats, the RQ-B's introduced high back seats. The RQ-B's had transistorized ignition made standard, some of the early "B" models had the Borg-Warner Power Shift transmission before transitioning to the GM Turbo-Hydramatic.

I've seen it reported that while the "A" and "B" models overlapped for a time, that Avanti Motors considered the "A" to be an "entry level" Avanti while the better appointed "B" model was the upscale version. That may only be promotional hype as government safety regs were making many of the upgrades mandatory anyway.

I'm not sure of the end number of the RQ-A, but I've read the RQ-B started at VIN #RQ-B1500. I don't know that for a fact, but have seen that in print. What the last RQ-A assembled might be I have not seen reported.

There's still a lot of unsubstantiated or unknown information about the cars and when certain changes were made. I have read reports that the first half-dozen or so RQ-B's still had the B-W transmission before the transition to the Hydramatic was made. I have RQ-B1574 which still had the B-W tranny when I bought it. If the "B" models started with RQ-B1500, than the idea that only a few were so equipped is incorrect.

It just goes to show that the full story of the Avanti and its running changes has yet to be uncovered and told.

[GAWen]

RQB1600 was built in November 1970 as the first 1971 production vehicle, and as delivered was equipped with the 350 cubic inch/270 HP Chevrolet engine and the Borg-Warner PowerShift Transmission (Later converted to a TurboHydramatic 400.

[Ray K.]

1. I dunno either.

2. Front suspension wasn't updated AFAIK.

3. Our '82 steering was extremely vague when we first got the car. Normally this is caused by worn steering linkages. Our particular problem was the center "bell crank" fitting. If you can get a good look under the car while an assistant turns the steering wheel from lock to lock, any parts moving in a manner that don't contribute to turning the wheels should be replaced.

4. Hog trough is a term used to describe the torque boxes. This is the reinforcing channel running on each side below the door sill. The moonroof drains discharge into the channel. If the channel drainage ports get blocked, then the channels rust from inside out. There is a nice replacement system available that comes in pieces so the body does not need to be entirely removed to replace rusted hog troughs:

Classic Enterprises - Avanti torque box repair

We replaced the passenger side box on our car with one of their stainless steel units. Classic Enterprises were great to deal with and the installation went very well.

[Ray K.]

Thanks for the quick response. My entire front suspension was redone by the previous owner. I checked the steering box adjustment, and it would not tighten more than 1/4 turn, so I put it back where it was. There is a hydraulic steering damper attached to the center bell crank. Is this factory equipment, and if so, are they available?

This Forum is great!!

[Gunslinger]

Thanks for the quick response. My entire front suspension was redone by the previous owner. I checked the steering box adjustment, and it would not tighten more than 1/4 turn, so I put it back where it was. There is a hydraulic steering damper attached to the center bell crank. Is this factory equipment, and if so, are they available?

This Forum is great!!

The hydraulic piston that looks like a shock absorber laid sideways is factory equipment. Occasionally you see them on Ebay, but outside of that, about all you can do is have it rebuilt with new seals. If it's not leaking and seems to be operating properly, you're just as well of leaving it alone.

If you want yours rebuilt, contact Jon Myers or Nostalgia Motors. They should be able to help you take care of that.

[James T]

Just to add a note for the question on bias ply tires. I'm no tire expert, and I don't play one on tv, but everything I've ever read and my understanding of the physics involved strongly suggests that radials provide far superior straight-line tracking and steering stability over bias ply tires. Think of how the belts are oriented in bias plys (perpendicular to the direction of travel) versus radials (parallel to the direction of travel) for a basic rationale.

Comparing the Avanti to another 60s era car with bias ply tires that tracks straighter is not necessarily an apples-to-apples tire-only comparison. There are two other steering designs that are superior to the Avanti's bell-crank - (1) worm and roller, and (2) rack and pinion. Most American cars of the 60s through the 80s had worm and roller, mostly due to cost and Detroit's overall attitude of "if it sells, why improve it?". Rack and pinion is superior but more costly. If your other 60s era cars had either of these, much of the straight line stability is due to their inherent design improvements over bell-crank. You would also have to consider the condition of all related steering components involved on both cars.

You'll never overcome the limitations of the Avanti's design without totally replacing it. You can improve it by following the input in this thread, but I can't see bias ply tires as the silver bullet solution.

[kmorg]

There's a reason that no one uses bias ply tires anymore!!

The bellcrank may need a rebuild and the same with the steering box (check for play overall and then isolate it) my '78 had almost 1/4 turn in the steering box and it wandered all over the place (I found this after replacing everything else that probably was OK).

If everything is in good shape--check the alignment and make sure the tech adjusts the cam on the inside of the upper control arms. According to my father in law (a longtime stude guy!), the kingpin/trunion front suspension is VERY caster/camber sensitive.