Curious .. do You shoot for authenticity or modification?

[aardvark]

There are differing intents and desires as Car Owners. Some live for every nut and bolt being 100% original. Others really don't care and go for Mods and Upgrades to suit their needs. Where do You fit into the mix? 

Me personally,,  I have a '63' R2 that is a 100% original vehicle in very good condition. The only intent I have for Upgrades or Mods is on the brakes. I'm planning on going to Turner Brakes with a dual master cylinder. My reason is we live in an area of steep mountains with twisty curves. I will save the Original Parts in case the next Owner wants to convert back..

And then... A acquaintance up the road is tearing His '63' down, putting a LS3, 600hp engine with Tremec 5 speed... Modifying the suspension and all Hi Performance upgrades. His intent is to go to the Salt Flats and surpass the 170mph land speed record..

I personally support either direction, but have one thing to add... IF You have a truly 100% example in very good condition. wouldn't it be prudent to keep it that way for no other reason but a Financial one? Common sense and the Markets sorta support my thought here.... IF your starting with a needy vehicle with a a lot of expense needed to bring it to 100%, then all bets are off and decisions need made.

Thoughts?

Opinions?

Edited yesterday at 05:10 AM by aardvark

[Michael Phillips]

It's my opinion that the original Studebaker cars should be left or restored as close to their original build as possible, especially supercharged cars.  Some concessions for safety such as better brakes, better seatbelts, radial tires make sense if you are actually driving the car, as opposed to a museum piece. On the subject of brakes, I would recommend looking at the Cobalt caliper kits sold by Bob Ziff at Avanti parts and restoration. These are new Bendix Girling type calipers that have been redesigned with modern internals. They replace the originals exactly. They look OEM except for the Cobalt embossed name.

If you want a Hot Rod or Resto mod, use an Avanti II, it started life as a modified Studebaker. so, a continuation of modifications should not be objectionable.

[ronmanfredi]

As an old but educated auto tech, I made the decision in my 20's (about 50 years ago) to never leave a car in original condition if I am going to build it for myself.  I turbo'd my cars in the 70's, Nitrous in the 80's, Both in the 90's, Cars, Jet-Ski's Motorcycles and Boats. If I can make it faster, look cooler and add the tech of the day, then I'll usually do it.  I'm not concerned about the resale value or what others think, but I usually get top dollar when I sell one of my vehicles.  In the Avanti world, I've created a show winning 2006 Avanti, which has been given to my wife, restored an 82 and sold it, restored the Dolenz 89 (it's up for sale), and am now embarking on an early Vin 63 R2 project.  I bought the R2 from an Avanti multi car owner, who started the ground up restoration but ran out of steam due to his age/health.  The entire chassis, engine, BW auto transmission, brake and suspension had been rebuilt.  New seat upholstery and main wiring harness installed.  It has a good base to begin with.  I have a vision for the car and will surprise many with the end result.  Here is our 06 and R2 project:

[Bob Preston]

What constitutes 100% original? Does it need to have the original shocks, engine mounts, leaf spring bushings, gaskets and light bulbs, for example? If the original engine has been rebuilt and bored is it still “original”? Mine has the roof drip moldings and air intake grill which were not original to the car. 
 

There’s an “original” ‘63 R1 with 16,000 miles listed for $79K. That’s about twice the price of some otherwise very nice R1’s. In theory it’s worth more, but there will be fewer buyers for that particular vehicle. Price and condition are both obstacles to most buyers and if it is all original, it’s probably going to need some work. 
 

Personally, I’m in favor of mostly original, but I’m mostly in favor of a mechanically sound car that presents well and gets driven. I appreciate the trailer queens and museum pieces and applaud the efforts of those who have a more radical vision. If we all did the same thing we wouldn’t have anything to talk about. 

Edited yesterday at 12:49 PM by Bob Preston

[aardvark]

Some good feedback, and I agree with all points expressed.

We still haven't heard from those doing like that Acquaintance of mine....LS 3's and all Hi Perf.  Also the doing massive bodywork changes.

 

Ron... I would own Your Dolenz car if funds were available... Ya had me drooling on my boots.

[mfg]

I’m 100% for safety upgrades on Stude Avantis (3rd brake light, better brakes, radial tires, Halogen headlights) Trunk mounted battery is a winner… Otherwise stock suits me!

[aardvark]

That's pretty much my stance for my '63' R2, since its condition is 90% great and no need for major upgrades,.(cept brakes as said earlier) .....I don't see the need for a trunk mounted battery and I've read all the weight distribution and other points.  Diehard still makes the stock battery, which is crap, but I keep a mini charger on it constantly.

The points You've pointed out can easily be reverted back to stock.... if desired.

[mfg]

35 minutes ago, aardvark said:

That's pretty much my stance for my '63' R2, since its condition is 90% great and no need for major upgrades,.(cept brakes as said earlier) .....I don't see the need for a trunk mounted battery and I've read all the weight distribution and other points.  Diehard still makes the stock battery, which is crap, but I keep a mini charger on it constantly.

The points You've pointed out can easily be reverted back to stock.... if desired.

Agreed….(I wouldn’t relocate the battery on square light Stude Avantis with group 24 batteries, but I’ve always felt the 3EE was an engineering mistake…. As you say, they don’t seem to last very long, and all that weight sitting on the fragile fiberglass inner skirt is ‘nuts’!)

[aardvark]

Well, I re-supported my box. It was cracked in one corner and I fiberglassed 4 layers on it... but yeah the battery is crap.. I went thru 3 of em in 1 year before I put a trickle charger on it .I do like the old look of the design... it's quite unique in style.. Saw one guy cut the battery open and remove the guts.. He installed a new battery inside of the original box... just to keep that Retro Look.

Edited yesterday at 07:32 PM by aardvark

[mfg]

2 hours ago, aardvark said:

Well, I re-supported my box. It was cracked in one corner and I fiberglassed 4 layers on it... but yeah the battery is crap.. I went thru 3 of em in 1 year before I put a trickle charger on it .I do like the old look of the design... it's quite unique in style.. Saw one guy cut the battery open and remove the guts.. He installed a new battery inside of the original box... just to keep that Retro Look.

Yes, I sort of did the same, gutting the 3EE to keep the ‘look’… but instead of going with a small battery inside it, I left the battery case empty and relocated a Group 24 to the trunk,

[Bob Preston]

7 hours ago, aardvark said:

We still haven't heard from those doing like that Acquaintance of mine....LS 3's and all Hi Perf.  Also the doing massive bodywork changes.

I spent several years browsing the market for a ‘63-‘64. One had a GM transmission, a few R1’s had been converted to R2’s, even more had undergone an engine rebuild and had been bored out. Some may have actually had the same displacement as an R3. Few, if any had received the moderate suspension upgrades seen on the R3. 
 

The car doesn’t lend itself to HotRod modifications, not that someone won’t try. It’s an interesting and stylish coupe that landed on a truck chassis. Had Studebaker remained in business and followed the Big 3 with similar performance upgrades throughout the 1960’s, we might have a market full of big blocks with 3 carburetors. That could be why we don’t see too many 10 second Avanti’s with parachutes. 
 

I wouldn’t touch the bodywork on the original. That goes for both round and square headlights. 

[mfg]

1 hour ago, Bob Preston said:

I spent several years browsing the market for a ‘63-‘64. One had a GM transmission, a few R1’s had been converted to R2’s, even more had undergone an engine rebuild and had been bored out. Some may have actually had the same displacement as an R3. Few, if any had received the moderate suspension upgrades seen on the R3. 
 

The car doesn’t lend itself to HotRod modifications, not that someone won’t try. It’s an interesting and stylish coupe that landed on a truck chassis. Had Studebaker remained in business and followed the Big 3 with similar performance upgrades throughout the 1960’s, we might have a market full of big blocks with 3 carburetors. That could be why we don’t see too many 10 second Avanti’s with parachutes. 
 

I wouldn’t touch the bodywork on the original. That goes for both round and square headlights. 

Just to clarify…Studebaker engineers utilized a modified Lark convertible (X Member) frame under their Avanti…. Not a “ truck chassis”

[aardvark]

Yes, I sort of did the same, gutting the 3EE to keep the ‘look’… but instead of going with a small battery inside it, I left the battery case empty and relocated a Group 24 to the trunk,

 

Good idea, MFG..... I'll keep that in mind..

The acquaintance I know modifying the 63 Avanti will likely go into full ground effects and spoilers., so there are those out there totally modifying these cars. That takes on total modifications to the fiberglass. To me, to make sense out of all He's doing He likely picked up His Avanti on the cheap..I never asked Him about the specifics of that.

[Bob Preston]

5 hours ago, aardvark said:

The acquaintance I know modifying the 63 Avanti will likely go into full ground effects and spoilers., so there are those out there totally modifying these cars. That takes on total modifications to the fiberglass. To me, to make sense out of all He's doing He likely picked up His Avanti on the cheap..I never asked Him about the specifics of that.

Sure, there’s always going to be that guy. Probably 99 out of 100 owners of drivable ‘63-‘64 Avanti’s have them in a “mostly” original condition. Unless your buddy chimes in, we aren’t likely to hear stories of drastic modifications. 
 

I’d like to see Mr Saltflat try it the same way Granatelli did, by building out the engine and strapping on a helmet rather than making the attempt in a Corvette. 

[aardvark]

I suspect my acquaintance (not buddy) is after 200mph, not just the 170 record.

[Bob Preston]

1 hour ago, aardvark said:

I suspect my acquaintance (not buddy) is after 200mph, not just the 170 record.

One thing is for sure, your acquaintance won’t be attempting the record in a Studebaker. 
 

Do you know the category he’s entering? 

Edited 3 hours ago by Bob Preston

[aardvark]

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