Avanti Values?

[Guy]

Value is only as valueable as the evalueator. Hasnt this been flogged to death.

[mfg]

1 hour ago, Guy said:

Value is only as valueable as the evalueator. Hasnt this been flogged to death.

Yes.

[Bob Preston]

5 hours ago, mfg said:

NEWS FLASH…. Our Avantis, if put up for sale, are only worth what the next guy is willing to pay for them!!

It shouldn’t be a news flash to anyone. It may be news to some that your Avanti isn’t my Avanti or the next guys Avanti. So without some knowledge and history of previous sales it would be next to impossible for a seller to ask a reasonable price or for a buyer to make a reasonable offer. There are numerous variables, one guys “nice” example might be another guys train wreck, but the information is useful. 
 

It isn’t likely that you’d put yours up for “Make an Offer” and sell at the first offer. If you do, I may want to take a look. 

[mfg]

5 hours ago, Bob Preston said:

It shouldn’t be a news flash to anyone. It may be news to some that your Avanti isn’t my Avanti or the next guys Avanti. So without some knowledge and history of previous sales it would be next to impossible for a seller to ask a reasonable price or for a buyer to make a reasonable offer. There are numerous variables, one guys “nice” example might be another guys train wreck, but the information is useful. 
 

It isn’t likely that you’d put yours up for “Make an Offer” and sell at the first offer. If you do, I may want to take a look. 

Ha ha… well said!

[aardvark]

Well, in 4 pages of comments what has been said or learned?

When I started this thread. I didn't realize it would have such tooth to it... but this is a sensitive and somewhat necessary discussion, as I see it.  Values and those that could care less about values have been discussed.... Also those who Love their vehicles more than they control their spending on said vehicles.  Others (like me) who see a profit in them.. We all approach these Vehicles a little different...... So be it.

One thing I'm aware of is We all have a reality coming up in the future.. Someone will be selling our Estate. It will either be us prior to out passing '''or''' someone who inherits our stuff. I've made a list of what I have and placed an approximate value to all major items, but in the mean time I still try to buy / fix / sell as I go along. So that list will be update as things change (Values ...OR... Items). My Wife really enjoys the cars but has no clue or interest in them IF I pass first. My Son, the same scenario, . Neither of them have the knowledge or desire to try and keep my collection running, insured and driven on a regular basis. They will either sell off the stock pile or it will rot away..     I can say, I don't care because I'll be gone, but that to me is a little selfish to dump my interests on them...

Your Mileage May Vary!

[Bob Preston]

6 hours ago, aardvark said:

Well, in 4 pages of comments what has been said or learned?

A great deal of what has been said are anecdotal stories that reflect individual circumstances. That won’t answer the original question. 
 

Some sales data and valuations from Classic.com and Hagerty has been provided. We can argue against or dismiss the data in the same way that we can disagree with an appraisal on a house. The reality is that the bank uses the appraisal to determine the loan amount, so that’s a large part of what determines home values. Same principle applies to vehicles. We need to use the available data to determine values rather than using the values owners believe their vehicles have. 
 

What I’ve learned is that some folks want others to do their work for them. And others, who most likely have an interest in the value of their car, pretend they don’t when they grow tired of a nonproductive discussion. 
 

 

[mfg]

1 hour ago, Bob Preston said:

A great deal of what has been said are anecdotal stories that reflect individual circumstances. That won’t answer the original question. 
 

Some sales data and valuations from Classic.com and Hagerty has been provided. We can argue against or dismiss the data in the same way that we can disagree with an appraisal on a house. The reality is that the bank uses the appraisal to determine the loan amount, so that’s a large part of what determines home values. Same principle applies to vehicles. We need to use the available data to determine values rather than using the values owners believe their vehicles have. 
 

What I’ve learned is that some folks want others to do their work for them. And others, who most likely have an interest in the value of their car, pretend they don’t when they grow tired of a nonproductive discussion. 
 

 

Bob, as in real estate, there’s no such thing as a true ‘comp’ in the Avanti world….There are simply too many variables……

To repeat, an Avanti, or any other collector car, is worth what the buyer is willing to pay you, and what you’ll accept, on the day you sell it!

[Bob Preston]

1 hour ago, mfg said:

Bob, as in real estate, there’s no such thing as a true ‘comp’ in the Avanti world….There are simply too many variables……

To repeat, an Avanti, or any other collector car, is worth what the buyer is willing to pay you, and what you’ll accept, on the day you sell it!

Your statement is true, however it is also rather inane. It’s similar to the phrase “It is what it is” which is known to drive Jerry Seinfeld mad. 
 

If there is a point to this thread it is that a value needs to be determined before a car is listed for sale. Few buyers would offer anything close to a fair price if the seller didn’t ask for something close to a fair price as a starting point. 
 

I’d imagine that most forum members would perform their own due diligence before buying or selling a classic car, in the same way that someone in the housing market would do some research. Houses typically sell close to their asking prices or appraised values. Past sales data helps determine the market. It isn’t just a shot in the dark. 
 

For the sake of this tread, I’m not interested in investing the time to compile the data necessary to answer the original question. In my opinion, the approach taken won’t yield meaningful results, however there will be some useful information posted here and there. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Bob Preston

[mfg]

“Inane”?….I don’t think so….

However, I do understand that  individuals situations and viewpoints can widely differ…..

I stand by my prior comments.

 

[Bob Preston]

Yes, inane. It’s a pointless comment that adds nothing to the discussion. 
 

I suspect that your sharp enough to serve up more than platitudes. 

[mfg]

1 hour ago, Bob Preston said:

Yes, inane. It’s a pointless comment that adds nothing to the discussion. 
 

I suspect that your sharp enough to serve up more than platitudes. 

Wow!… were you the Grinch that stole Christmas in another life??

You need to learn respect for others opinions son!

Happy Holidays!

[aardvark]

Whereas I realize the initial question is near impossible to answer, there are some averages I'm seeing.

I used a 1-10 range settling on a 7. to take a valuation from 3 categories.. 1)original 63-64....2)65-90ish....3) 01-07. 

Let me give this a ''w.a.g'' (wild a$$ed guess)

I've based a #7 rating as a running moderate mileage car in very good condition with little need for paint or repairs. A car I can drive and enjoy..

So.... a 63-64 in $7 condition I see them selling in the $25-40k range.....A 65-90ish. generally $15-25k.....A. 01-07 generally  in the $35-45k range. 

Remember I look for a 50a% profit margin (or a doubling in value)....., so my 63, R2 w/ 85k mi. I bought for $16K .... My 02, w/ 40k mi. I paid $19k.

There needs to be some ballparking and generalization.

Where I disagree with the crowd here is this is NOT like a a R/E purchase.  There are no Banks approving a loan (or rarely), no board determining value.No appraisals being done.  The item might be sold in a day or so, so a effort is made to jump on the purchase..  Real Estate is quite different... You are basically ''On Your Own'' when doing a Generalized Appraisal. Yes, there are indicators of values..Hemmings BAT and other sources and they are taken into account..   Also in R/E there are very few 50% off deals (I've. never seen any)..AND...Most transactions are cash not 30 year loans.

So in my Barn. I've done well. 

Your mileage might vary.

(editing was due to spelling errors)

 

Edited 9 hours ago by aardvark

[Bob Preston]

11 hours ago, mfg said:

Wow!… were you the Grinch that stole Christmas in another life??

You need to learn respect for others opinions son!

Happy Holidays!

Merry Christmas. 
 

It’s interesting that you don’t show respect my opinion about your statement. Now you’ve resorted to telling me what I should do. 
 

I'm open to listening to how the statement has substance, originality or adds meaningfully to the conversation. Another cliché probably won’t suffice. 

Here’s another opinion to consider. Statements like “Your car is worth whatever the next guy is willing to pay” are just attempts to marginalize and dismiss a discussion. It’s great that you have it all figured out. Other folks might still want to discuss the subject. 
 

If you watch the entire film, animated or live action, you’ll see that the grinch doesn’t steal Christmas. 

[Bob Preston]

Aardvark,

One possible flaw in your system is that your 7 might be my 4. I’m new to the forum. That said, some of your posts suggest that you may be willing to accept imperfections that others would not. 
 

It’s easy to focus on our own particular situation. Allow me to provide some information from my perspective, which is considerably different than yours. 
 

I’ve been watching the 63-64 Avanti market for a couple of years. In particular the R2’s. Over the past 4 months I looked a 4. One via a 3rd party inspection and appraisal, because I didn’t want to invest the time and money in a trip to see it until I had more information. That car was on the market for about 4 months, had a price reduction during that time and was taken off the market because the owner decided not to sell. 
 

The other 3 I looked at in person. One in Connecticut, which had been for sale in Tennessee. It’s still for sale and has been for about a year. It sold at auction for $37,500 and is listed at $58,000. On a 1-10 scale, it’s a 6, but priced like a 8 or 9. I won’t list the deficiencies noted on a quick look over and a short test drive. 
 

Another one, in Ohio, is priced at $54,900 and that’s Bob’s “I don’t want to sell it” price. It’s an original barn find. He wouldn’t allow a test drive because the tires are so old. It’s been listed for quite awhile. I’d give it a 5, or a 6 if originality is key. 
 

Another one in Michigan, was also listed for $54,900. I gave it a 6 and bought it for $48,000. The orange, Deluxe, interior is excellent. Paint (white) is believed to be original with a few chips touched up. It doesn’t “need” paint, but would look fantastic if repainted. Doors, windows, hood and trunk all fit well and open and close properly. Chrome and glass are very good. It’s on the rack getting new suspension bushings and shocks, wheel bearings, some power steering components, rotors and hubs (calipers were recently replaced) glass packs and tail pipes, an electronic ignition and some other miscellaneous items. 

FWIW: I took out a loan to facilitate the purchase. I’m retired but have the cash flow to make payments. One thing about retirement is that you switch from saving to spending. My money is working for me and I prefer not to spend it down. The credit union wanted to see comps, so I emailed them a handful of listings of recently sold R2’s from Classic.com, most were in the mid-40’s, so they placed a value of $45,000 on the car when determining  the loan amount. It was approved by the loan committee. 
 

In a few weeks I’ll have a car that I’d give a 7 or maybe an 8. I hope this helps you understand a different perspective. 

Merry Christmas,

Bob

[mfg]

9 minutes ago, Bob Preston said:

Aardvark,

One possible flaw in your system is that your 7 might be my 4. I’m new to the forum. That said, some of your posts suggest that you may be willing to accept imperfections that others would not. 
 

It’s easy to focus on our own particular situation. Allow me to provide some information from my perspective, which is considerably different than yours. 
 

I’ve been watching the 63-64 Avanti market for a couple of years. In particular the R2’s. Over the past 4 months I looked a 4. One via a 3rd party inspection and appraisal, because I didn’t want to invest the time and money in a trip to see it until I had more information. That car was on the market for about 4 months, had a price reduction during that time and was taken off the market because the owner decided not to sell. 
 

The other 3 I looked at in person. One in Connecticut, which had been for sale in Tennessee. It’s still for sale and has been for about a year. It sold at auction for $37,500 and is listed at $58,000. On a 1-10 scale, it’s a 6, but priced like a 8 or 9. I won’t list the deficiencies noted on a quick look over and a short test drive. 
 

Another one, in Ohio, is priced at $54,900 and that’s Bob’s “I don’t want to sell it” price. It’s an original barn find. He wouldn’t allow a test drive because the tires are so old. It’s been listed for quite awhile. I’d give it a 5, or a 6 if originality is key. 
 

Another one in Michigan, was also listed for $54,900. I gave it a 6 and bought it for $48,000. The orange, Deluxe, interior is excellent. Paint (white) is believed to be original with a few chips touched up. It doesn’t “need” paint, but would look fantastic if repainted. Doors, windows, hood and trunk all fit well and open and close properly. Chrome and glass are very good. It’s on the rack getting new suspension bushings and shocks, wheel bearings, some power steering components, rotors and hubs (calipers were recently replaced) glass packs and tail pipes, an electronic ignition and some other miscellaneous items. 

FWIW: I took out a loan to facilitate the purchase. I’m retired but have the cash flow to make payments. One thing about retirement is that you switch from saving to spending. My money is working for me and I prefer not to spend it down. The credit union wanted to see comps, so I emailed them a handful of listings of recently sold R2’s from Classic.com, most were in the mid-40’s, so they placed a value of $45,000 on the car when determining  the loan amount. It was approved by the loan committee. 
 

In a few weeks I’ll have a car that I’d give a 7 or maybe an 8. I hope this helps you understand a different perspective. 

Merry Christmas,

Bob

Bob… Sounds to me that after doing careful research, you bought yourself a really nice Avanti.

That’s great news!!

I like ‘Avanti White’ Stude Avantis with the orange interior… Many of the early production Avantis were built in that fashion.

Best of luck with your new purchase!……I hope you have many happy miles behind the steering wheel!

Merry Christmas…Ed