1971 Avanti II ignition problems

[55Studebaker]

Hi Guys,

I have a 1971 Avanti II w/4speed that I think has a bad ignition switch. I started it just over a month ago fine and yesterday I went to start it again and could not turn the ignition key into the on position. It would rotate back to turn on the accessories but not forward to fire the engine. I'm guessing that I have an AMC ignition as I have an AMC key for the car, and it is a tilt column. Any ideas? Also how do you remove the ignition switch from the column?

Thanks,

John

[WayneC]

Any ideas? Also how do you remove the ignition switch from the column?

I haven't done this, so all I can do is make some suggestions.

You did try moving (turning) the steering wheel while turning the key, right?

Try squirting some graphite lock lubricant into the key slot (from a pressurized can with a skinny plastic tube) and work the key in it a bit to see if you can free it up before you tear the column apart.

I think the steering column is actually a GM design, which may have been purchased for Chrysler/AMC cars. Removing the ignition switch is not a simple operation, it requires removing the steering wheel and the ignition switch, and perhaps the tumbler lock (which requires breaking a tab inside the housing casting). The ignition switch itself is inside the base of the steering column, which has to be lowered to gain access to the switch. The switch is connected to the lock assembly via a long rod inside the steering column.

The design is meant to deter theft, so it is intentionally difficult to access the switch.

If you've ever seen a program on TV about car thieves, you know they steal cars with this locking column setup by screwing a hammer puller into the ignition key slot and driving the lock cylinder out, breaking the lock tumblers and other retaining hardware, then they stick their finger in the hole and manipulate the rod down to the ignition switch to start the car. This, of course, requires the whole steering column assembly be replaced to repair the damage.

The problem could be in the lock/tumbler, or in the switch down below, or in the column locking mechanism. You might try calling a couple of locksmiths to see if they have any experience with these locking columns, and/or a GM dealership.

If you can find a service manual for a car that has this steering column design, it will outline the procedure... for instance, a Chilton book that covers 70's Chevrolets.

[IndyJimW]

Hi Guys,

I have a 1971 Avanti II w/4speed that I think has a bad ignition switch. I started it just over a month ago fine and yesterday I went to start it again and could not turn the ignition key into the on position. It would rotate back to turn on the accessories but not forward to fire the engine. I'm guessing that I have an AMC ignition as I have an AMC key for the car, and it is a tilt column. Any ideas? Also how do you remove the ignition switch from the column?

Thanks,

John

I'll check my old repair manuals tomorrow, but if the design is new enough and the problem is in the switch and not the lock, the switch is located on the column tube about half way down. It will be held to the column by two screws. The lock moves a rod that slides in a groove in the switch. You can disconnect the switch and use a screwdriver to move the slide to test the switch. I have seen them come loose and move with the rod, in that case just adjust the switch and tighten the screws.

Jim

[rdmaxon]

Sorry to hear about your problem. If all else fails,PM me and I'll make copies from the repair manuals I have and snail mail them to you. I do believe these are GM columns. AMC used GM columns in some of their cars along this time. Although it doesn't sound like a worn key is the problem it may be something to check into before going any farther. RD Maxon

[55Studebaker]

Sorry to hear about your problem. If all else fails,PM me and I'll make copies from the repair manuals I have and snail mail them to you. I do believe these are GM columns. AMC used GM columns in some of their cars along this time. Although it doesn't sound like a worn key is the problem it may be something to check into before going any farther. RD Maxon

Well I was able to pinpoint the problem. It turns out that the gear that connects the lock cylinder to the rod to turn the ignition switch on/off has lost the last tooth and when the key is turned to the on position the gear is not in contact with the rod anymore and the rod moves and then when the key is turned to the off position it is basically locked from going to the on position again due to the rod moving. Any one have an idea where I can get one of these gears? I tried NAPA with no luck. And I was able to find an old manual of my Dad's that has every U.S. manufacturer of cars from '77-'84 and the exact column used in the AMC's is the same as in my Avanti. I checked GM in it and they weren't similiar but again thats 6 years after my Avanti was new and maybe AMC used the same column as GM from '71 all the way to '84

I'll try and get a picture of the gear up tonight.

[WayneC]

Well I was able to pinpoint the problem. It turns out that the gear that connects the lock cylinder to the rod to turn the ignition switch on/off has lost the last tooth and when the key is turned to the on position the gear is not in contact with the rod anymore and the rod moves and then when the key is turned to the off position it is basically locked from going to the on position again due to the rod moving. Any one have an idea where I can get one of these gears? I tried NAPA with no luck. And I was able to find an old manual of my Dad's that has every U.S. manufacturer of cars from '77-'84 and the exact column used in the AMC's is the same as in my Avanti. I checked GM in it and they weren't similiar but again thats 6 years after my Avanti was new and maybe AMC used the same column as GM from '71 all the way to '84

I'll try and get a picture of the gear up tonight.

How did you gain access to observe the problem?

If it wasn't too difficult, perhaps you could find a donor steering column in a junkyard that uses the same gear. Junkyards are on a computer system so they can locate parts in other yards.

Try a locksmith that works on car ignition switches, they may have catalogs which include repair parts if they exist.

Chances are that part is not serviced separately by the maker, anyway, and unfortunately it may be very difficult to find out if it is... you might try the parts department at a Chrysler or Chevy dealer to see if they have anything in their system, though I doubt they will.

eBay (see if these columns/parts look like yours... ignore the steering wheel and levers, look at the lock area):

http://tinyurl.com/n7f7z

http://tinyurl.com/qpf4w

http://tinyurl.com/rhwm4

http://tinyurl.com/r2lpr

http://tinyurl.com/ruxfu

http://tinyurl.com/lms7o

http://tinyurl.com/pb73o

http://tinyurl.com/qemnh

http://tinyurl.com/ntbcr

Is the gear steel, diecast metal, or plastic? Alternatively, it may not be a big job for a machine shop to duplicate it or possibly to repair the bad tooth with some very careful welding and grinding, or even something like JB Weld if the tooth is not under a lot of stress.

Worst case, you could always wire an aftermarket ignition switch into the car

if you can find a spot to mount it.

I look forward to seeing your photos.

[55Studebaker]

How did you gain access to observe the problem?

If it wasn't too difficult, perhaps you could find a donor steering column in a junkyard that uses the same gear. Junkyards are on a computer system so they can locate parts in other yards.

Try a locksmith that works on car ignition switches, they may have catalogs which include repair parts if they exist.

Chances are that part is not serviced separately by the maker, anyway, and unfortunately it may be very difficult to find out if it is... you might try the parts department at a Chrysler or Chevy dealer to see if they have anything in their system, though I doubt they will.

eBay (see if these columns/parts look like yours... ignore the steering wheel and levers, look at the lock area):

http://tinyurl.com/n7f7z

http://tinyurl.com/qpf4w

http://tinyurl.com/rhwm4

http://tinyurl.com/r2lpr

http://tinyurl.com/ruxfu

http://tinyurl.com/lms7o

http://tinyurl.com/pb73o

http://tinyurl.com/qemnh

http://tinyurl.com/ntbcr

Is the gear steel, diecast metal, or plastic? Alternatively, it may not be a big job for a machine shop to duplicate it or possibly to repair the bad tooth with some very careful welding and grinding, or even something like JB Weld if the tooth is not under a lot of stress.

Worst case, you could always wire an aftermarket ignition switch into the car

if you can find a spot to mount it.

I look forward to seeing your photos.

Wayne you found exactly what I need in your first link, I didn't even think about column repair kits. That kit has the gear I need. The gear is made of plastic and to get to it I needed a plate depressor to get the plate behind the wheel off. Not too bad, but not fun either. I thought about using JB weld and crafting the tooth back on as well before I found that.

The gear is in the bottom of the pic in the center in the first link. Thanks for your help I greatly appreciate it.

[WayneC]

Wayne you found exactly what I need in your first link, I didn't even think about column repair kits. That kit has the gear I need. The gear is made of plastic and to get to it I needed a plate depressor to get the plate behind the wheel off. Not too bad, but not fun either. I thought about using JB weld and crafting the tooth back on as well before I found that.

The gear is in the bottom of the pic in the center in the first link. Thanks for your help I greatly appreciate it.

I had a feeling that might be the part you needed, and I guess that confirms my belief that the column was made by GM. Glad to have been of assistance.

Edited May 16, 2006 by WayneC