1982 Avanti II for sale in Montana

[warren55]

I've been scouring the web for the last few weeks, and this one has come up before but I haven't considered it seriously for a couple reasons: It's an emission strangled 305, and it's probably 600 or more miles from me.

That being said, it seems like a pretty nice car for a reasonable price. Any thoughts on this car in particular, or these years in general? I know it has the sunroof, but if it's really had the frame off restoration that he claims it has, and it was done correctly it would never be a concern for me. It would never see rain again while I have it!

The upside would be a fairly modern transmission, brake system and interior appointments with the classic styling.

Anybody here live in Montana?

http://montana.craigslist.org/ctd/3337082014.html

[Avanti83]

I own an 83 and think that by this era Avanti's have about as good a build and parts quality as were installed in any era. They were priced in the $30K range and materials reflect it.

To find one in this condition for $10 K is (in my mind) a very good buy. I think that the 82's had an overdrive automatic tranny, but check and you will not need to spend $$$$ on any improvements.

That anemic 305 is just that but drive it first, it might be ok. But if it's not, $2K or so will buy you a decent crate engine and give you back the performance you will enjoy.

The secret will be your state emissions policy. The computer control in these cars is an almost seperate system that can be removed allowing the install of a carb/HEI system on a crate engine if your state doesn't have emissions checks.

My 83 had a similiar 305 but now sports a 355 SBC with all the goodies and a Holley Avenger EFI system.

I drove 740 miles each way to tow my 83 home and am glad I did. If it's as nice as they say, take a friend, significant other , etc and take a small vacation and drive it home.

I'm glad I did. There is no way you will start with a decent $7.5 K II and get to this one at $10K. You'll have more in it.

Food for thought, Bob

Edited October 15, 2012 by Avanti83

[cobrajoe74]

Warren...have had my '82 for almost 5 yrs now & am still glad I bought this year II. Seems like there's a lot of bashing of later II's by many members but I, like you, appreciate the original chrome bumper look with more modern ammenities. I searched for an '82 or '83 as I wanted the newest chrome bumper car I could find. Yes, the 305 is not very powerful, but then no car from this era was particularly fast (save for a 928 or the like). Contemporary road tests have 0-60 times in the 9's...I find that if I really put my foot down when accelerating that I can at least feel a little push into the seatback! At least there's the V8 sound. I particularly do not like 74-81 cars because of the cowcatcher front bumper extensions which were removed for 82-83 (by the way, does anyone know how or why this change came about)?? These year cars cannot be easily modified-cutting the extensions off still leaves empty tubes and a grill with holes in it. That leaves your choice to an early car that is now 40+ years old-try to find a low mileage original that old!!...mine had 52K unmodified miles.

I actually looked for a car with a moonroof-I have convertibles but find that here in SoFla I tend to use a sun/moonroof more often. Sure it leaks, but who cares as I only take the car out in nice weather! It still works fine and there's nothing like a Sunday morning drive to the beach with the windows down and the sun on your face!

'82 is the 1st year for the 200-4R 4 spd overdrive which makes the car much more comfortable for hiway cruising. I love my later model Recaro seats and the full leather interior and all the power options (which still work-so far)... I also like my period Blaupunkt cassette, the later model low profile trunk rack and the wire wheels and Cibie driving lights and return to covered headlights...when I was a teenager this was the style of Avanti I lusted after (albeit that would have been the early '70s)....II's always looked like that's how the Avanti should look...original Stude Avantis looked like older cars that needed these updates to stay modern...I remember seeing a new Avanti II sitting by itself in the grass parking lot at Watkins Glen during Grand Prix weekend about 1979-80- white with white Recaros with red piping, whitewalls, driving lights & wire wheels-all I can say is I don't remember any other car from that weekend!! That's when I said "someday I'll have one of those"...and that meant a II.

Anyway, it's all about that feeling you get when you see the right car. I don't cover my car in the garage because I like just looking at it when I open the door! So please, all you AOAI members, don't go hating on our newer cars...and Warren, good luck with 'The Search'!!

[warren55]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the perspective. So I gather that the 82-83 went back to the old bumper style? I was wondering about that, I don't care for the cow catcher grill!

I have a possibility of getting a 63 R1 with about the same mileage that's in need of paint in the same color as this one, but there's a big difference in technology under the skin.

I'm kind of torn on that aspect of it. As a driver, I'm sure the 82 is far superior; but as a collector I'm drawn to the original car.

Avanti 83, you mentioned a computer control on the 82. I guess there were some rudimentary computers starting to appear in American cars at that time, but they were still carburated, correct?

It's been a while since I've had the pleasure of working on an early 80's car!

[cobrajoe74]

Warren...82 and 83 had computer controlled carburetors...yes a pain in the a** if not tuned properly, but my mechanic says that if they are maintained that they work fine. I agree that collector values for Stude Avantis are much better than IIs and may increase in value in the future, however the buy in for a decent car is much higher than a II and you have to deal with Stude power train- not that that's bad...just old now. I like having the old look but being able to get any part I want for cheap at Autozone, etc because of the Chevy motor/tranny. And yes, 82 and 83 are the newest chrome bumper cars without the front cowcatchers. I like having an 80s era car that looks like a 64...drives more like a modern car.

[warren55]

Here in Washington anything over 25 years old is exempt from emissions, so I think I know what would happen to the computer controlled carb (and probably the whole 305 at some point!).

I just need somebody to have a look at it for me, because there is no way I'm making it to Montana anytime soon!

[cobrajoe74]

For what its worth...I live in South Florida & my car was located in Blaine, Washington-something like a mile below the Canadian border!...bought the car from photos and by calling the sellers references (he was a collector who lived in Vancouver but had the car in the US as he had bought it here & didn't want to pay the duty to import it). His references included the owner of a large auto auction company with whom he had bought & sold cars in the past (Silver)...even so, was not quite as immaculate as described and needed a rear main seal (it leaked like a seive on the way back to Seattle)!! Would suggest an appraiser (like those advertised in Hemmings) if you can't find an AOAI member to check out the car...I thought I hade made a real mistake when the leak arose, but after shipping the car home & having the mechanic do the work, I'm now glad I bought this car...haven't seen anything I like better in all these 5 years!

[warren55]

It's too bad I wasn't on this board at that time; I drive through Blaine just about every day! I'll be there in about 3 hours, in fact.

[Avanti83]

Posted by cobrajoe74

I like having an 80s era car that looks like a 64...drives more like a modern car

With a couple of small adjustments like removing the front clearance lights and the rear rubber over riders, the only thing that is different in my 83 is the front fender wedge.

Bob

[warren55]

Nice looking car, Bob!

Unfortunately, this one has the trunk rack which I don't think helps the looks of the car. I'm not really a fan of the wire wheels either, but that's easy to change.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the price he's asking for the car? He tells me the paint is perfect, the seats have been redone but the door panels and the back shelf are showing some fading. I'm waiting for more pictures.

I don't think he's done much mechanically on it, but it only has 74000 miles on it, too. He says the hog troughs are great, and the sunroof doesn't leak and works fine.

[Guest dapy]

What would be the acceleration or HP...and MPG difference between the standard 305 and, say, a crate 350 in a 1982 Avanti II? What other advantages?

[Avanti83]

What would be the acceleration or HP...and MPG difference between the standard 305 and, say, a crate 350 in a 1982 Avanti II? What other advantages?

My experience with SBC's from this era and earlier is that GM had not got the computer control to the point where there was a good combination of performance and mileage. They were still using retarded cam timing and other mods to meet emissions requirements at the cost mileage and performance. They were starting to get closer in this time frame and were better than the 70's but a few more years were necessary to develop the computer controls to provide performance and mileage.

That's my intro to saying a well tuned 350 crate with the correct carb for the application and a new appropriate cam should give better mileage and preformance than the 305.

In my case, I decided to go the extra step and add a Holley Avenger HP ECM setup that controls all functions based on a wide band O2 sensor or other factors of your choice. It teaches it self as you drive to optimize the engine parameters.

It's $1600 from the lowest cost suppliers but controls timing as well to optimize parameters.

My 74 383 SBC will be getting another one.

Bob

[warren55]

My experience with SBC's from this era and earlier is that GM had not got the computer control to the point where there was a good combination of performance and mileage. They were still using retarded cam timing and other mods to meet emissions requirements at the cost mileage and performance. They were starting to get closer in this time frame and were better than the 70's but a few more years were necessary to develop the computer controls to provide performance and mileage.

That's my intro to saying a well tuned 350 crate with the correct carb for the application and a new appropriate cam should give better mileage and preformance than the 305.

In my case, I decided to go the extra step and add a Holley Avenger HP ECM setup that controls all functions based on a wide band O2 sensor or other factors of your choice. It teaches it self as you drive to optimize the engine parameters.

It's $1600 from the lowest cost suppliers but controls timing as well to optimize parameters.

My 74 383 SBC will be getting another one.

Bob

Well put, Bob. I couldn't have stated it any better myself!

Did you use a crate motor or build one yourself?

Did you do anything to your 200R transmission to handle more power?

I've heard that they weren't all that strong when they fist debuted.

[Avanti83]

Well put, Bob. I couldn't have stated it any better myself!

Did you use a crate motor or build one yourself?

Did you do anything to your 200R transmission to handle more power?

I've heard that they weren't all that strong when they fist debuted.

Warren

I got a great deal on a well built 355 off of Ebay. A fellow built it for a customer with a deposit but he didn't pay the remainder so he sold it for what he had in it minus the up front cash. Aluminum heads, roller cam etc.

I also bought the 2004R from him as that was his primary business. It has sufficient upgrades to handle 400+ HP which he claims the motor has. So far, so good as I've not been gentle on it. The shift points match the engine and 4:10 rear end quite well.

The 200 series has a smaller case than the 700 so it fits a little better but the 700 will fit.

The racing folks I talked to about the strength of each said not an issue as they have about the same strength with upgraded components. I paid $1400 for mine with 2000 stall converter.

Bob

[warren55]

Nice! I bet it scoots down the road. Might surprise a few unsuspecting "fast" cars?

What size wheels and tires do you have on that? It looks like they fill up the wheel wells nicely. One of my biggest complaints with these cars is the limited tire and wheel size, from what I've read.

I wouldn't want anything silly, but something to help the stance.

[plwindish]

Don't sell the70's II's short. I had my 76's 400 rebuilt and de-smogged along with having a rebuilt 200-R4 put in and it way more get up and go than I need. I recently had the suspension rebuilt and had the "cattle-catcher" bumper removed. It has that classic older Avanti front end look and a modest rake. It now drives like a dream with the redone springs and suspension.

[warren55]

I would actually consider any of the pre 84 cars if the right deal came up.

I'm not sure if the 82 is still available since I haven't heard from the owner in a few days. If I got that one, I'd probably live with the 305 until the right deal came up on a motor. I might even learn to live with the 305, maybe....

I'm actually working on the possibility of getting a 63 R1. That would probably be my ideal car if it works out, but it comes down to what it will cost when it's done.

There's something about owning an "original", although I'd probably rather drive the later model!

One things certain: I would never look down at an Avanti II. I think that it's awesome the car survived in spite of all the turmoil behind the scenes!

[Avanti83]

Nice! I bet it scoots down the road. Might surprise a few unsuspecting "fast" cars?

What size wheels and tires do you have on that? It looks like they fill up the wheel wells nicely. One of my biggest complaints with these cars is the limited tire and wheel size, from what I've read.

I wouldn't want anything silly, but something to help the stance.

Warren

The rims are 15 X 8" with the rear tires P245X60R15 and the fronts P215X60R15's. Back spacing is 4.5 on the rear and 3.5 on the front. Everything fits fine and it handles quite well for a 50's suspension. There is a full 8" of tread on the ground on the rear. It's set about 1 1/2" to high in front but I'll make the lowering mods on the 74 as I will need to rebush the front suspension before it gets on the road.

The wheels on the 74 will be 99-04 Mustang Bullits 17 X 8 and they seem to fit except I'll need to space them out about an inch on the front as they are 4.5" back space.

Bob

[Avanti83]

Don't sell the70's II's short. I had my 76's 400 rebuilt and de-smogged along with having a rebuilt 200-R4 put in and it way more get up and go than I need. I recently had the suspension rebuilt and had the "cattle-catcher" bumper removed. It has that classic older Avanti front end look and a modest rake. It now drives like a dream with the redone springs and suspension.

PLW

If what you mean by de-smogged is a cam change along with removing the smog equipment then you have a crate motor essentially. All SBC's 1955-98 are essentially the same engine with cubic inch changes, I know, Vortec heads in the late 80's. However, in the mid-70's they were strangled by a lot of cam retard, low lift and compression and small valves. The 400 is the best choice of that era as it would still deliver reasonable torque.

I had a 39 Ford Coupe that I found a 1974 station wagon 305 SBC to install. They were DOGS but I pulled the OEM cam and replaced it with an RV grind Wieand, Along with a Wieand Al intake and 500 CFM Holley. The wagon motors had larger valves then. That little devil reminded me so much of our early SBC drag motor that would just rev in an eye blink. Just like the golden days of unrestricted SBC's. That's why I say it's not hard nor expensive to bring a smog motor to a reasonable performance level.

I love your car from previous posts and you made a wise choice to retain the 400. My 74 would be getting one if I hadn't found the 383 stroker I'm installing.

Bob

[warren55]

Warren

The rims are 15 X 8" with the rear tires P245X60R15 and the fronts P215X60R15's. Back spacing is 4.5 on the rear and 3.5 on the front. Everything fits fine and it handles quite well for a 50's suspension. There is a full 8" of tread on the ground on the rear. It's set about 1 1/2" to high in front but I'll make the lowering mods on the 74 as I will need to rebush the front suspension before it gets on the road.

The wheels on the 74 will be 99-04 Mustang Bullits 17 X 8 and they seem to fit except I'll need to space them out about an inch on the front as they are 4.5" back space.

Bob

How did you arrive at your size and backspacing? I'd like to put Magnum 500's on if possible, but they don't seem to be available with 3.5" backspacing for the front. It looks like 15x7's are 4.25 backspacing. I assume that 15x8 with 4.5 backspace wouldn't work in the front?

[Avanti83]

Don't sell the70's II's short. I had my 76's 400 rebuilt and de-smogged along with having a rebuilt 200-R4 put in and it way more get up and go than I need. I recently had the suspension rebuilt and had the "cattle-catcher" bumper removed. It has that classic older Avanti front end look and a modest rake. It now drives like a dream with the redone springs and suspension.

PLW

If what you mean by de-smogged is a cam change along with removing the smog equipment then you have a crate motor essentially. All SBC's 1955-98 are essentially the same engine with cubic inch changes, I know, Vortec heads in the late 80's. However, in the mid-70's they were strangled by a lot of cam retard, low lift and compression and small valves. The 400 is the best choice of that era as it would still deliver reasonable torque.

I had a 39 Ford Coupe that I found a 1974 station wagon 305 SBC to install. They were DOGS but I pulled the OEM cam and replaced it with an RV grind Wieand, Along with a Wieand Al intake and 500 CFM Holley. The wagon motors had larger valves then. That little devil reminded me so much of our early SBC drag motor that would just rev in an eye blink. Just like the golden days of unrestricted SBC's. That's why I say it's not hard nor expensive to bring a smog motor to a reasonable performance level.

I love your car from previous posts and you made a wise choice to retain the 400. My 74 would be getting one if I hadn't found the 383 stroker I'm installing.

Bob

[Avanti83]

How did you arrive at your size and backspacing? I'd like to put Magnum 500's on if possible, but they don't seem to be available with 3.5" backspacing for the front. It looks like 15x7's are 4.25 backspacing. I assume that 15x8 with 4.5 backspace wouldn't work in the front?

The tires were on the car and new when I purchased it so I liked the sizes and left them. The wheels were chosen by looks and trying one to see how they centered in the wheel housing. The only two back spacing options they had in those wheels was 3.5 and 4.5" That worked.

The 15X7 Magnums I think will work. My 83 has the Steeltec Disc Brake option and they along with Turner (which I have for the 74) seem to set the wheels just slightly closer to the tie rod end. IIWY I'd just get a wheel and bolt it on. I think you will be pleasantly suprised. I'm adding a 1" spacer to the Mustang wheels on the front as it is the thinnest true spacer I can find. I really only need 1/4" or so but that's the best I can find. That's why I think the 15X7's will fit your car.

Bob

Edited October 20, 2012 by Avanti83

[warren55]

Thanks for the info. Now I need to buy a car! If I were to buy the 82, are the wire wheels worth anything?

[Guest dapy]

What were the model years when the Chevy 305 was the factory install? It gets reports from 'high performance' to a dog that won't hunt. And a high maintenance dog to boot. When compression checked what would be acceptable? What modification, short of replacement, is recommended?

[warren55]

I haven't found a definitive answer, but it looks like from about 1980 to the late 80's. In 84 or 85 the h.p. was increased from 150 to 180-190 when the H.O. from the IROC Camaro was used.

I'm sure they drive fine for a car from that era, but it would feel like a bit of a "dog".

As Avanti 83 mentioned, removing the smog equipment and putting in a more aggressive cam would do a lot for driveability and probably increase the h.p. a bit. To really wake it up would require changing the heads, exhaust, intake manifold and carburetor or installing an EFI system as he did on his 350. At that point, I would think it would better to swap out the motor for something like a crate 350, or finding a decent used one and building it the way you want.