Palantirion
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Posts posted by Palantirion
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My "Tribute" project is stalled from further photography and showing due to what I am certain is a failing head gasket - although there may be other age-related problems. The car still runs, but isn't really safe or polite to drive.
I am now searching for a reliable person in the Orange County area that I can trust to find and fix ALL the problems and also store the car properly during the rebuild. 1964 R1/auto.
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TRIBUTE IS FINISHED! Finally. Ready to be shown at the TMPCC show at CBS Studios on the 4th of July.
pics to follow... -
It's been a while since I've updated the thread. Work has been going well, just taking forever due to the size of the car and complexity of the design.
So much so that I had to open PShop to figure out why it took me two weeks to do the final paint on Bloomberg's 1963 number. Red, white and black = 3 colors right? Nope. Turns out that, painted in the context of this project, the number "1" alone has 42 colors in it! Most of these colors are shared with the other three numbers. Still, it explains why it took so long.
Here is the number "1" with each different color labeled (not counting line color). Note that the differences are more apparent to the human eye than to a camera's lens:
Here is Bloomberg's "1963" in stages from final paint, linework and clearcoat.
Since then I have finished the Studebaker symbol, Livesay's 1112, Burke's 90 and three color stripes. So the entire driver's side is finished. As is the trunk and the areas around all chromed parts and glass. Currently I am finishing the final paint on the hood and hope to have it lined and cleared by the end of next week.
7-4 is my self-imposed deadline, the TMPCC car show at CBS Studios. -
After some considerable time off I went back to work on Tribute. While there are some physical tasks left unfinished I decided first to tackle the most difficult of the remaining paint areas. The trunklid was unfinished at CFAC in September, while all the surrounding areas were finished. I wanted to make at least one end of the car complete before I went on to work on other areas.
Then I thought I would show some step-by-step pics of my process so those of you unfamiliar with my style could see the before/after.
This is the right (night) side of the trunklid. Note the white numbers I added. "1" is how it looked at CFAC. In "2" the sky and light square segments have final paint. In "3" the rest of the segments have final paint. "4" is fully lined. "5" is gloss coated to better integrate the acrylic paint and enamel lines.
The gloss medium also enhances the luminosity of the colors. The example here shows how much more visible the green and blue tones within the dark sky are with the gloss applied.
The following three layups show the before/after, from CFAC in September when the trunk had only layout color and lines to now, finished.
The trunklid is a special part of Tribute, as the style differs somewhat from the rest of the composition. The basic idea is, in keeping with the right side of the vehicle, architecturally based. The linework is based on the privacy glass panel outside Loewy House, while the curved separation between day and night comes from Loewy's pool - carried down subtly from Tribute's roof composition. The mountains on the left side are from Bonneville which merge with the mountains from the area outside Palms Springs around Loewy House. Essentially it is a view through the glass's distortion of the view out over his pool superimposed with the reflection of the the pool and house's lights as they would be seen from above. This creates windows, glimpses, within the composition that juxtapose the idea of vision and clarity with that of a cloudy, albeit beautiful, vagueness. This references not only the specific details surrounding the Avanti's creation, but a stylistic representation of the struggle of creation itself.
Maybe. -
Well, up to the September 2014 show I would estimate thusly:
R&D: 100-150
Surface prep: 50
Dissassembly/re-assembly: 40
Interior: 25
Painting: 300+?
Current est.: 500-550 hours.
I'll actually go back and count the days and itemize things more accurately after it's finished. For my own curiosity if nothing else. It's a damn site more time than I needed to do my first art car. But there was no work to do on that one but research and paint, and both were simpler, and the Z4 M Coupe is a much smaller car. It took about 260 hours, counting final polishing.
Btw, I'm back at it. After a longer-than-expected hiatus I touched paint to car again tonight. Working on finishing the trunk currently.
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Thanks for the support. Merry Xmas guys! Look for work to resume on Tribute after the new year.
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In case you were wondering why I was asking these questions...
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For those that don't know, I painted my 2007 Z4 M Coupe (Scatha) as my first Art Car in 2011. It has it's own website (www.myartcar.com) which will be revamped to similarly house the Avanti's pictures.
For now I will post here the first public pictures of the Avanti at this year's Cruisin' For A Cure carshow. Understand that in order to meet the date of the show a lot of the painting time was devoted to restoration of the trim and interior. So the paint is not quite finished as you see it here. Those of you who know my style will notice the unfinished areas. Those who do not know my style, please understand that the layout is finalized and that shiny = finished.
Stylistically Tribute is a polar opposite to Scatha. The Z4's surface treatment made it very easy to use its lines as part of the artwork. The Avanti's broad, simple contours necessitated a concept that would pull the viewer's eye from the surface and into the piece. This is one reason why everything is portrayed in reverse. The surface of the Avanti is reflecting its history to us.
Similarly to Scatha, "Tribute" is primarily a diptych with the horizontal surfaces acting to bridge the two contrasting sides. The Driver's side honors the Studebaker Avantis that set records racing, while simultaneously reflecting the landscape of the Bonneville Salt Flats through their respective panel sections. These are:
Paula Murphy's #9 and "Sears-Studebaker" cars
Granatelli's Due Cento and #8 cars
Ron Hall's 1963
Bill Burke's 88 then 90 (actually 6 of this cars liveries are represented in some way)
David Livesay's 1112 (unfinished)
Dave Bloomberg's 1963 (unfinished)
Jim Lange's 9431
Bill Brandt's 60.JPG)
.JPG)
The Passenger's side honors the artistic and lifestyle elements, in a semi-chronological fashion from rear to front, that produced, inspired and/or embraced the car in its time. Specifically:
Loewy House
The Riviera Hotel
The Coechella Valley Bank building
Salton Sea North Shore Yacht Club
The Monkey Tree
The Chi Chi Room
Palm Springs Aerial Tramway
Sherman's
The Mission Inn
Mann's Chinese Theater
Hody's
The Brown Derby
The Biltmore Hotel
Playboy Club LA
The Broadway
Griffith Observatory
The Hollywood Bowl
The Troubador
Musso-Frank's Grill
Cinerama Dome
Walk of Fame
Pink Pu$$ycat
Town Hall
Union Station
Capitol Records
Pantages
Pandora's Box
LAX
Lawrey's
Victory Drive-In.JPG)
.JPG)
The concept continues onto the front with a shift towards entertainment:
Route 66
ABC's Vine St. Theater
El Rey
Pacific Ocean Park
NBC studios
CBS (custom riff on their first, animated color TV logo)
Palladium
2nd Street tunnel
Miracle Mile.JPG)
The driver's side of the hood has two important components. 1st is the superimposed crusts of salt, doubled and blurred progressively toward the rear, that lay over the reflection of sunrise at Bonneville. As it proved difficult to use a representative technique to illustrate the salt's surface in this context I chose to go with a more stylized approach, fixating on the energetic visual movement of the salt's texture as speed increases. 2nd is the depiction of the six original Avanti colors, intermingling, coming off the hood badge. The badge itself kicking up a rooster tail from its two points as a further nod to the speed of those portrayed on the driver's side.
The front and rear are divided; day contrasting with night. In the front this is done with the overlapping centerlines of a city street and Bonneville's black chalk. Across the roof the border is less severe with the driver's side sky slowly blending into the passenger's side swimming pool. This in-turn is carried down to the trunk in a curve (with shadows and lights) from Loewy's pool. The trunk itself is conceptualized as looking at the view from Loewy's house into the surrounding desert through a section of distorting privacy glass that highlights the view itself in the architecture of his home. This section is currently a refined sketch - far from finished in its current condition.
The roof has its own significant details. On the driver's side is a Cessna 411, a nod to civilian aviation. A B-52 is launching an X-15, to reference the high level of technology and ground-breaking vision appreciated by Avanti owners. The woman diving into the pool is Ursula Andreas wearing the signature Dr. No bikini. The palm tree and lattice shadows are from Loewy house. The roof is also unfinished, so expect the colors and contrasts to pop more strongly when completed.
The interior is mostly finished will be restored to stock condition. This meant completely replacing nearly every tactile surface. Tito from Bon-A-Rues was essential in this part of the project and the car simply would not have been ready to show without his tireless efforts.
A few detail shots:
I chose to leave some of the metal cowl vent natural, only clearcoating it. I really liked its subtle metallic glint, and I think it will go nicely with the surrounding black areas. I also left part of the driver's side door bare fiberglass (also clearcoated), to show the structural material of the car. But that section isn't finished yet so I'll post a pic when it is.
http://www.myz4mcoupe.com/images/Avanti/14,09-27,%20CFAC/7_details%20(1).JPG
The turned letters and numbers are actually leaf that I turned after laying on top of the acrylic. The original cars' leaf was white gold, but since I needed to have more control over the final color of each little section through tinting I chose to use imitation silver leaf. This was then glazed, where appropriate, to look like white gold. The other areas glazed to appear as white gold overlapping the respective background colors.
http://www.myz4mcoupe.com/images/Avanti/14,09-27,%20CFAC/7_details%20(3).JPG
The Avanti lettering from Due Cento was the last I did, and has the highest contrast between sections. I also think it is the most effective. So I will likely go back and glaze more over the 8 and 9 once all other painting is completed.
http://www.myz4mcoupe.com/images/Avanti/14,09-27,%20CFAC/7_details%20(4).JPG
The materials used are the same as with Scatha: Acrylic paint, brushed on, with Deco enamel markers and brushed acrylic clearcoat. Unlike Scatha I had to sand Tribute down through several layers of factory and aftermarket paint, fix some fiberglass cracks, prime and block sand prior to any painting. Layout was done with Stabillo pencils. This was mostly freehand, using a level to keep text plumb and cardboard stencils (drawn and cut freehand) for the driver's side number boards. -
Be sure the filler neck is "clocked" the proper way, or the ears on the cap will hit the gas door. someone may have replaced the filler neck hose, and installed the filler neck in the wrong position.
-I don't suppose you could post a pic of yours as reference?
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Be sure the filler neck is "clocked" the proper way, or the ears on the cap will hit the gas door. someone may have replaced the filler neck hose, and installed the filler neck in the wrong position.
-I don't suppose you could post a pic of yours as reference?
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Thanks for posting. That does look pretty much like mine. But for some reason my gas lid won't close now (bumps the cap flange), and I didn't have that problem before the car lived at this mechanic's. That's why I thought it may have been switched, but they do look the same at a glance. Except mine is dirtier!
Does your fuel filler lid close ll the way?
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If you happen to be an Antique Studebaker Club member their publication "Antique Studebaker Review" issue for Sept/Oct 1984 has an article I wrote on pg 14-15 that shows how to drill a small hole in exterior Studebaker door handles to release the lock cylinder for service methods. If you don't have access to this issue let me know and I could scan the pages and email them to you. My email address is studeracer_37@yahoo.com. John Shanahan
-I think I found a similar item online, but I don't like the sound of the procedure. I DO want to put the same cylinders back in, and I don't want to do anything I can't undo. I should think that a drill isn't necessary going off the instructions, even if I am missing part of that technique.
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Could one of you kind gents please post a pic of your original Avanti gas cap? I think mine might have been switched out by a mechanic some time ago, but I don't know because I can't find a single reliable picture on Google of an original Avanti gas cap. I certainly haven't seen any pics on the common Avanti online parts stores either.
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Love the white wheels under the caps and how they accentuate the white of the body. Interesting too that the blackwalls look really great, due to contrast. Not many Avantis could make them work so well.
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1963 Avanti.
I have the shop manual, and tried following its instructions on how to remove the lock cylinders from the door handles, but no luck. Of course, this same manual's instructions neglected to mention that there is a small screw buried under the weatherstripping that holds said handles to the door after you remove the two nuts. But I digress.
The instructions say to use a small punch to press into the hole in the side of the cylinder and then use a key or pick to slide the cylinder out from the handle. So, where to start? For one thing, there are two holes in the side of the cyclinder, not one. For another, there seems to be nothing to press on but the body of the cyclider. I have turned the cylinder using the key through the entire rotation and in one position it seems like the punch goes in farther. But I'm not sure. The instructions don't say anything about key/lock position or rotation. In any case the cylinder refuses to budge.
Which brings me to the larger question. Should I even be doing this? The reason is that I want to have the handles rechromed. To do that I obviously need to remove the cylinders. However the chrome shop said I should also take apart the handle from the base so they can be chromed separately. Is this process pretty straightforward? Or do I run the risk of damaging something I can't put back together with hand tools? Because if I can't get the handle/base separated I guess I don't need to know how to take the lock cylinders out.
p.s. I am also considering removing the trunk latch mechanism so I can more thoroughly remove/clean oxidization from the metal surfaces. Looks like I should just remove two or three bolts and the cable and it will pop off the trunk wall. Are there any tricky aspects to this job, particularly with regards to reassembly?
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These photos that you're posting are GREAT!! The #8 Avanti is not the same car as the 'Due Cento'. The #8 Avanti was the 'backup' car for the gold #9 Avanti that set all the records in 1963. #8 was part of the Granatelli-Studebaker Bonneville effort of 1963 where Studebaker set over 330 speed records. As far as I know, #8 wasn't credited with any records. The Studebaker Avantis that were present were the red #8, the gold #9, and the 'Due Cento'. The gold Sears-Allstate 'cross country' Avanti (Paula Murphy) also made an appearance I think. And several different Studebaker Larks and Hawks were also there.
-So that Allstate car was gold? Do you know of any color pics of it? In my mind I saw it as Turquoise.
Also, would it make sense to you that Champion would use the #8 car in advertisement if it was only a backup car and never took a run or set a record?
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On the series of photos of the 'red' Granatelli 'Due Cento', (including the video), these are all photos of the same Avanti. The video shows the car with the 299 CI 'early' R3 engine at Bonneville in late '62. The next year the Granatelli's came back with this same car as the 'Due Cento', with the big 'R5' engine installed, and all the body mods. This particular Avanti was (is) one of the pre-production experimental (EX) Studebaker Avantis.
-Thank you for the clarification.
Now how about this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-AVANTI-ORIGINAL-VINTAGE-AD-CHAMPION-SPARK-PLUGS-/371037206771
http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1/R1000/63R1014/63R1014x2009.html
Is this also the same red EX Avanti, used for records in a different class/time?
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p.s. I still can't find any info on a red Avanti #786 that I saw a model of online. Now I can't find a link to the pics any more. But I figure someone isn't going to make a model of a meaningless car, so perhaps this Avanti is important too. Does anyone know anything about it?
Looks like an R2 with dual side exhaust exiting behind the front wheels, roll cage, black chute, Moon wheel covers, raised fairings on the roof, and STP round headlight covers.
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Ron Hall's #1963 Avanti,(you might be confusing Bloomberg with Hall owning the car), residing in the Studebaker Museum since his early death. Ron's car was the first to break 200 mph at Bonneville in September 1993. It certainly wasn't factory backed as Studebaker was long out of business at that time, but sponsored by Black Hawk SDC and Chicagoland AOAI as well as other clubs and many volunteer hours put in by SDC and AOAI members helping work on the car getting it ready and also being out in Bonneville for the runs. I believe Ron's earliest runs with the car was in 1988. Ron and the car were the topic of a great night at the Studebaker Museum a year ago. That meeting was made into a Dvd that John Hull may still have available for purchase. Hull had also compiled the program for that night that listed all of the past racing records of the Avanti's. A copy of the program also came with the dvd, which would have great information for your project.
-There are two Avantis using #1963, Ron Hall's in the museum, and the gold one (I believe Bloomberg's, used in modern times).
According to this article (http://www.studebaker-info.org/Bonneville/Hall/bonville.html) Hall's was definitely used much later than Studebaker existed. But this brings the question: Why is it in the museum? Are other privateer cars listed here also destined for the museum?
As far as the Brook Bros car, I found this blog:
http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/burke-bros-bonneville-bucket-list-studebaker-avanti/
Seems like the original car #90, looked like this:
Then was rebuilt and repainted to this around 2010:
And then finally (2011 to currently?) to this:
http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/bucket-list-dream-studebaker-avanti.html
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=656240
Then is there is Due Cento, by Jim Lange :http://www.theavanti.net/jim_lange.html
named after Grannetilli's Stude-backed car:
Now, curiously, Grannetelli ALSO pilots this red Avanti for Studebaker: (see vid)
Was this the same car, prior to the mods, to set the stock car records?
And what about this pic, showing the hood scoop but not the rear wheel covers?
Another configuration of the modified car? Or an evolution of the one in the above vid? Or both?
Paula Muphy's car, obviously Stude-backed:
Pics at Bonneville in 2010 of (left to right) Dan Wethren's Avanti II #646, Jim Davis' Avanti II (white), Jim Lange's Duo Cento, and Bloomberg's #1963:
http://www.theavanti.net/due_cento_r5.html
Moving away from Bonneville there is Bill Brandt's '63 Avanti #60. I found this pic from the 2002 Siver State Classic:
And (although it isn't relevant to my project because it isn't a Studebaker Avanti) there was this '84 Avanti used in SCCA racing:
http://www.studebaker-info.org/Avanti/AVGT/avgt.html
You're taking on an interesting project. The Avanti I would like to see replicated is the twin-supercharged 'Due Cento' from 1963. You are a painter, and probably also do bodywork. If all the unique exterior features that were on the original car were duplicated (hood scoop, belly pan, fender skirts, etc.) it would really be something to see. All the original signage including 'STUDEBAKER' on the rear fenders would also need to be duplicated. (And 'spun aluminum' wheel discs would also be a must!)
-I think you underestimate my current automotive skills. With regards to my dad's '64 this is the first time I've ever tried to restore a car. Thankfully the bodywork component of that project is minimal. I agree that a replica of the original Due Cento would be really cool!
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Sounds awesome! Btw, perhaps your ears are burning: http://www.aoai.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2912
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To whom it may concern,
I am a painter and Avnati owner. I am currently working on an Avanti-centered project (for myself, not intended for sale, but pics will be posted here when completed). Part of this project will be a tribute to Avanti's racing history.
I have done as much research as I can through the internet and while I have a lot of visual data I am not sure how the pieces fit together. Of particular confusion is clarification of which Avantis were actually campaigned by Studebaker and which were later privateer entries. Or in the case of some running on the salt as late as the 2000s, are they relevant to the Avanti's historical narrative?
These privateer cars would include the turquoise Duo Cento #9431, Dave Bloomberg's gold #1963, the #686, the "bucket list car" which seems to have changed liveries a few times, and a turquoise #60 campaigned in road racing for many years.
Links to the privateer cars...
Duo Cento #9431
Named in honor of Granatelli's R5. http://www.theavanti.net/jim_lange.html
#1963
Clearly numbered in reference to the official Studebaker record car. Bloomberg owned this Avanti. I assume it was first campaigned long after the demise of Studebaker, but I could be wrong. www.theavanti.net/bloomberg.html
Bucket List
I am not sure if this car is in fact the old Bill Burke car. But if it is it has been substantially altered over the decades. The tri-color stripe livery is implied to be a reference to a vintage livery, but I have no details to confirm this. http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/bucket-list-dream-studebaker-avanti.html
#60
This one was set up for road racing, and later was lost in a garage fire. It brings to mind the question, were there any vintage Avantis (factory-backed or privateer) used in road racing or hill climbs? http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1/R3000/63R3801/63R3801.html
#646
A gold Avanti II at Bonneville. No info on the page. http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/saltracers.htm
Known factory-backed Avantis
1) #9 Paula Murphy car.
2) #1963 driven by Ron Hall.
3) Granatelli's twin-supercharged red car, with no side numbers.
4) I have a b/w photo of a Champion Spark Plug add with a #8 car that set a one-way record of 197mph. Don't know the driver or color (dark in photo, maybe Avanti Red).
5) There is a diecast model of a #786 red (not a proper Avanti Red or Maroon). I can't find any documentation on this car at all apart from the model, but models are never made of meaningless cars. Could it have been one of Granatelli's?
6) According to a (presumably) Studebaker video there was a plain Avanti Red car that was used by Granatelli at Bonneville to set the stock records.
7) #90, gold (or yellow), 1963 of Bill Burke. Not sure if that was officially sanctioned by Studebaker, but appears to have been raced in 1963 and then in subsequent years with different owners and liveries.
8) I have a b/w photo of an unnumbered Avanti, sponsored by "Sears-Studebaker" at Bonneville. Some of the lettering implies it was used in long distance rallies or record runs across the US.
I am also curious how many Avantis were used as pace cars, and if their liveries differed from one venue to another. I have a pic of one with double black hood stripes on a white Avanti. Another (from Nassau) is white stripes on black. I have another pic of a plain white Avanti on a banked track. -
I didn't need to worry about the paint on mine this time, it's trashed. But I agree that for $15 I should have one around. Thanks for your help guys.
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Check out the mirror on this 1:43 scale Avanti. Not the regular location or style. But also different than my dad's. Was this a different Studebaker mirror?
p.s. Someone told me that they thought my mirror could be a Joma mirror (aftermarket company from the '60s), but I can't find any good info on them.
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Apparently no special tool is needed. The glass guys that arrived to pull the windshields for me (didn't want to chance breaking one) just took a dull screwdriver pick to the bottom of the wiper arm to pry one side while keeping it straight on the shaft by holding the wiper assembly. Came off in 2 seconds with no damage. I didn't realize they just slide on/off.
Avanti mechanic recommendation, OC, needed
in Avanti Information
Posted
Yeah, that would have been my first choice Lew. Unfortunately I have mixed feeling about Jason. He had my Avanti for years, which was ok at the time. And did the jobs I paid him for pretty well, but didn't store the car properly at all and the sun and rain really screwed up the interior and rubber. He also didn't notice the problems I'm having now, leaks and such, even though he did a valve spring replacement. Car's only had maybe 200 miles since I got it from him. I wish he had noticed these problems then, I would have had him do all the engine work!
He's also semi-retired when last I spoke to him. His workflow is very slow and workspace small with virtually no proper storage.
Any other suggestions?