Bob Preston

Below are more 5-year sales charts for a random selection of classic cars. FWIW: I’ve also included a 5-year chart for a S&P 500 index fund.

The sale price for R-3080 was revised to $41,888 as of this morning. Below are two screenshots that show average sale prices for R1’s and R2’s.

I had a heck of a time joining this forum. The Fort Knox security question kept showing “unsuccessful” despite providing the correct answer. Somehow, I managed to get an email address for Lewis Schucart, contacted him directly, and he was able to create a profile for me.

Great idea. As a new Avanti owner and new forum member, I’ll probably have a number of questions that have already been asked and answered. I’ve got a good mechanic on the job, but it is his first Studebaker. Dan Booth, Dave Thibeault and Tommy Myers in CA have all been helpful on the phone, but I don’t want to take up their time with a bunch of questions.

63R-3080, a 1963 R2 with a GM automatic transmission just sold at auction for a hair under $45K. It had undergone a refurbishment in 2007-8 that included an engine rebuild.

Thank you.

Not sure I’d call it a “beef”. The broad picture is that you’ve made a number of derogatory comments about anyone who does things differently than you. Everyone is an idiot or a fool with their money. “Typical Americans” spending their own money however they choose. Shameful, isn’t it. You’re obviously the smartest guy in the room. Well, maybe the second smartest. I’m no longer listening to the smartest guy in the room, so by default, you’re the smartest guy in my room at the moment. I’m still reading the room. So far it doesn’t really seem like you want to share ideas or listen and try to understand experiences other than your own. What you do is your business. Same goes for the rest of us. Let’s try talking cars and prices and see if we can look past the differences we may have with others.

You actually started this thread to ask about average selling prices. Or so it seems.

Then help me understand, because your words suggest otherwise. Since the get go you’ve been focused on your ability to buy cars that magically appreciate in value by at least 50% once you hold the title. But anyone who would pay your price has to be a fool with more money than brains, because an intelligent person would pay the price you paid. There’s no way your buyers can make 50% unless they find a bigger fool. This is the pot calling the kettle black. The cars that I’ve lost a small fortune on were tools that allowed me to get to work and make a larger fortune. I bought a number of used cars while working. The people that sold them to me lost their asses and so did I. Now, in retirement, I’ve starting buying new cars as daily drivers because I have the cash flow and I no longer need to focus on saving money. An interesting fact about real estate prices is that if your house doubles in value, so does every other house in the neighborhood. Unless your willing to downsize or move down market and realize some of those gains the increase in value useless. You may have started this thread to see how others approach buying and selling, but you only seem interested in talking about your method and you’re quite dismissive of other methods. Again, that’s just my take on your words.

Where did I say it is a problem? I simply shared my interpretation of some of the things you’ve said in this thread. It is of no concern to me that you need to buy and sell cars at a profit in order to take part in the hobby of collecting classic cars. What strikes me as peculiar is the level of animosity you seem to have toward others who aren’t concerned about making a profit on every vehicle they buy. Those folks are your customers. “Beware” of what? FWIW: I have a truck and a motorhome currently for sale, both at prices below what I paid for them. That makes me a seller. With the exception on one motorcycle that I owned for a short period of time in the 1980’’s, every vehicle has been sold for less than the price paid and I haven’t counted the number or totaled the losses. That may make me a foolish, out of touch loser in your book, but I’m satisfied with my lot in life. All the best. Happy new year.

You’re siting on unrealized gains. Of course, those “gains” are based on values that you have placed on the vehicles. Frankly, if I were engaged in a hobby/business where profitable sales were essential, I’d be selling as much as possible at 10%, 50% or 200% profit. Doing so could put you in a position where profit is no longer a factor. No disrespect, but you present yourself as someone who is the equivalent of “real estate poor”. You have a lot tied up in vehicles, your cash reserves are down and you can’t buy another car unless you sell one or two. That’s the message I’m getting, maybe I’ve misinterpreted what’s been said. You also seem to be trying to time the market, which rarely if ever yields positive results. My advice, take the profits. Rinse and repeat.

Thank you.

Does removal and replacement of the bushing and bearing in the steering knuckle require the specific tools mentioned in the workshop manual or will brute strength and awkwardness suffice? Thanks.

Definitely. For someone who has to have the car, or is willing and able to spend without limits just for the sake of a restoration, none of the above applies. I have copies of receipts for the work performed on one of the vehicles I considered that total about $35K and that work was done 12-13 years ago. The 2 big ticket items were new paint and an engine rebuild. The paint was good, but far from flawless and there were a number of other issues that needed to be addressed, at least at the price point. On another one the seller claimed to have receipts totaling $57K which included an engine rebuild and new paint in a non-original color, also about 12 years ago. For me, a repaint in anything other than the original color gets a substantial reduction in value, even if it’s a flawless paint job. It does create a unique and personalized car, however, I believe radical modifications can limit the number of potential buyers, regardless of how cool they may be. In this case, I discussed with the seller that the price was appropriate for that car with the correct color paint, which to me meant that it would need to be repainted in order to achieve that value. I offered just $3500 less than the asking price (much less than the cost of a quality paint job) but that was $1500 below the lowest price they were willing to accept. I wouldn’t come up because there would have been added expenses in a trip to see the car and have it transported. The color was the dealbreaker. The car was inherited and had mostly sat in storage for the past 12+ years. Now it continues to sit due to an emotional attachment. This, of course, touches on the sellers perspective. If there’s an emotional or sentimental connection for the seller they may want to reconsider the idea of listing the car for sale.

Here’s a method that should work for many who want to determine a dollar value for a classic car. This isn’t a breakthrough discovery as I’d imagine that most use something similar even if they’re not aware of doing so. The objective is for an individual to put a value, in dollars, on a particular vehicle. This is a cold hearted calculation where the variables of emotions, sentiments and virtuosity are excluded. The first step is to establish a standard for the condition of the vehicle one would like to achieve. It could be concourse level, a decent car for local shows, a solid driver or a smoke spewing rattle trap with a family of raccoons in the back seat. Once we have the standard a dollar figure can be determined by analyzing recent sales. As an example, recent sales of ‘63-‘64 R2’s have topped out in the mid-$50’s. Less recently a couple sold in the $70’s. Based on photos and descriptions these cars would fit in the “decent car show category”. It would be reasonable to conclude that such a vehicle would have a value of $55K-70K, with the differences possibly being a flawless paint job compared to one with a few blemishes or perhaps a 4-speed vs automatic transmission. Regardless, we’ve established what could be called a reasonable maximum potential value for a particular model in a generalized specific condition. From here, the next step would be to calculate the cost to bring a subject vehicle up to the established standard. For some it may be $3000 in parts and materials and 2 months of their free time in the garage. For others it may be the same cost for parts plus $10,000 for someone else’s labor. In this example, the DIY buyer may be willing to pay more for the subject vehicle than the buyer who will need to farm out the work. This is just a look from a buyers perspective. Also keep in mind that you can’t pay too much for the right one but you can pay too little for the wrong one.

Dave mentioned it being the same as a ‘62 Oldsmobile. Those probably aren’t readily available either.

Thanks everyone. A new kicker from Dave is on the way. I’ve also decided to go with a full electronic ignition and will hold on to the original parts.

Someone else is wasting your time. In all probability you’ll continue to hear the same things from the same individuals. If you stop creating or participating in discussions out of concern for what someone else might say, then you’ve allowed yourself to be controlled by another person. You’ll have been silenced or bullied. That’s not a positive outcome. One option is to exclude certain posts from appearing on your screen. The other is to simply not respond. In my experience, the former is more effective. It’s also necessary to accept that others will see the posts that you do not see or respond to which could make you appear weak or timid, when in reality you’ve become more powerful. Currently you’re caught in a trap over semantics and emotions when the topic is car values. And I’m going on about something unrelated to car values as well. We can do better.

Thanks for another helpful and informative post. That’s what keeps these things alive.

Aardvark, I’d respond similarly in person. Of course, in person, we’d use our real names. Forums actually allow more time to write a response. It’s astounding that someone would be disturbed by a couple of folks discussing Avanti values in a thread with “Avanti Values” in the title. In person, I’d probably ask “What did you think we were going to talk about?” For someone who tells others they need to respect differing opinions yet fails to do so themselves, I’d call them a hypocrite. For someone who repeatedly takes jabs at a conversation because they believe it is pointless, I might suggest that they find someone else to talk to and strike up their own conversation. In between the disruptive posts, there has been a rational conversation. Now that I’ve deployed the ignore feature, perhaps it can continue without further interruption.

Here’s the deal. You can’t tell others what they should do. I’m not sure if you’re a moron or just want to argue. I just bought the damn car and it is being worked on so that I can drive it to the Gilmore for the Wednesday drive ins. I may drive it to the Studebaker Museum next summer. I don’t really care what it’s worth. Are you listening?

Good gravy, mfg, I’m not sure if you’re not listening, confused or both. What has you convinced that I might sell my “product” for a profit? If I go first, my wife is going to donate my car collection to The Gilmore Car Museum. Get over yourself. Why are grown men so sensitive?

I’d call you quitters but you keep posting.

Well, if we say it can’t be done, then we’re all quitters aren’t we? It’s pretty easy to shoot down every idea and it’s even easier to not present any solutions. Maybe it is time to move on.

To be clear, I saw 6’s that were/are priced in the mid-$50K’s. There are a few recent listings in the $70K’s. Those would have to be near Trailer Queen quality, in my opinion to justify those prices. My limited buying experience has shown that the hype in the description rarely matches the actual condition of the vehicle. Maybe I’m too demanding to think that both power windows should work, the tires shouldn’t have flat spots and the car shouldn’t pull to one side while braking on a car that’s priced like it might win best in show. Prices do seem to be trending upward on the 63-64’s, at least the ones listed online.