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8E45E

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Posts posted by 8E45E

  1. On 12/20/2023 at 12:53 PM, mfg said:

    I've noticed over the years that whenever large (or small) inventories of NOS Studebaker parts surface, it's uncommon to find any part 'exclusively Avanti'.....They just weren't in production long enough for very many 'Avanti only' parts to filter down into dealer inventories.

    There were close to 4500 Avantis manufactured, and roughly 2200 Studebaker dealers at the time, which would average two Avanti's per dealer.  Of course it never worked that way, a dealer maybe selling ten, and several selling none.  Even a dealer that sold ten would never inventory a stock of 'Avanti only' parts, and would have ordered them from a Parts Depot.  I would not be surprised one of the many reasons R-series engines were offered across the board for the 1963 model year was to get more of them out in the field where dealers would stock tune-up parts for them.

    Craig

  2. I know Brooks Stevens made an Ambassador-size concept/proposal around 1969 for AMC.  It was on display in front of his museum in Mequon for many years outside under a canopy. 

    Remember, Richard Teague had a preference for tunneled headlight design, as seen on the 1964 American, Javelin, 1974-'78 Matador 2 doors, and it is a dead giveaway on the Pacer. 

    Craig 

  3. The Pacer was designed by Dick Teague, who also designed the 1955 Packards based on the 1951 body.  The Pacer was his final design for AMC before he retired.   

    Yes, it was supposed to have a Wankel engine, but in fairness, the first energy crises killed the Wankel as it had a reputation for poor fuel mileage.  Not only GM pulled the plug, but so did European manufacturers who were also going to use it.  The Triumph TR-7 was supposed to offer a Wankel option, but it also got killed along with the Pacer.

    Craig

  4. 10 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

    In 1984 the Pontiac Fiero sold just over 100,000 cars, but sales dropped sharply thereafter, dropping to 26,402 in 1988.  The Fiero was a specialty car, a 2-seater with limited space to carry anything.  So, that market was limited and they had saturated it.  (It didn't help that some early ones caught fire.)

    Similarly, the Avanti was a specialty car in a limited market, and was never going to sell a lot of cars.  Plus, the Avanti had major competition: Thunderbird, Riviera, Grand Prix, Olds Starfire, and an all new Corvette.

    There weren't very many faults with the Avanti; power window problems and a hot shifter are all that I can think of.  They had production problems, though, that limited supply.

    --Dwight

    Another good comparison; this time from the 1980's.  As Andy Beckman stated with the Pacer. "Everyone who wanted one got one in the first year, and then they ran out of buyers".   The same was true with the Fiero, despite adding a V6, and a GT model.

    Craig

  5. 3 hours ago, mfg said:

    I wonder how many Avantis Studebaker would have sold if there were no production snags at all?

    It would have had a sales-curve similar to the AMC Pacer 13 years later, had they been in stock and ready for purchase at the dealers like the Pacer was.  In the first year-and-a-half, Pacer sales enjoyed over 100K units; a dream for any independent to achieve.  But sales dropped off sharply after that, despite a new station wagon for 1977 and a V8 engine in 1978.  I suspect the Avanti would have had phenomenal first model year sales (for an independent), but once their faults became known and made to the press reviews, sales would have tanked right after.

    Craig

  6. I never got to see one 'for real' until several months after they were introduced.  Because of the inability to supply dealers with sufficient stock on introduction day, our local dealer did not receive an Avanti until early 1963 in Canada.

    Craig

  7. 1 hour ago, wapanzica said:

    Bob Palma told me a story about the time he and his brother snuck into the proving grounds and hid in a tree on the side of the track and watched an Avanti running laps.  On one of those laps the car stopped, backed up and than stopped at the side of the track.  The driver got out and walked up to the tree and told the boys to come down.  Though they thought they were camouflaged by the tree their legs were dangling below the branches.  After questioning them about what they were doing there he put them in the back seat of the Avanti and drove them to the front gate and told them to leave and never come back.  They may have been the 1st two people to ride in the back seat of an Avanti.

    That was recounted in his & George Krem's "Summer Sleuthing In South Bend" article in the September, 1980 Turning Wheels.  I believe it was also mentioned again in a repeat article in TW earlier this year.

  8. The Avanti design was radical enough that no one would have guessed that it was a Studebaker, or possibly any other car manufacturer at the time; especially if there was no identification on it.  And if it did get laid up in a farmer's field, passers-by may have concluded it was a 'home-grown' creation, and kept on driving.

    Craig

  9. On 11/2/2023 at 9:03 AM, mfg said:

    One thing that has thankfully faded into history is the strained relationship between Studebaker Avanti owners, and owners of other Studebaker models, that existed in the late 'sixties' and well into the 'seventies'.

    I recall, as a young fellow at the time, Studebaker owners who did not consider the Avanti to be a 'real' Studebaker...and conversely Avanti owners who, (with Studebaker auto production kaput), didn't want to admit their beautiful Avanti even WAS a Studebaker product !!

    I remember a few local Avanti owners prying the Studebaker nameplate off the deck lid of their cars, filling the holes in or replacing the Stude nameplate with an 'Avanti' script. (the same script as on the front nose panel)

    I'm glad to see that today all of that silly animosity is a thing of the past..however, the mentality I've described once definitely existed!...Ed

    That may have been the case for a few Avanti owners, but not all. 

    There was an SDC member here years ago who purchased a 1964 Avanti when it was only two or three years old at the time.  All the 'Studebaker' emblems and nameplates had been removed from the car, which he subsequently replaced.  

    It is a well-equipped Avanti.

    Craig

    10im001.jpg

  10. On 3/8/2023 at 5:03 PM, Gunslinger said:

    R4130 was a prototype mule for the '64 upgrades and some of them were different than the final versions used in production.  It was eventually sold to Sherwood Egbert with some more modifications of the personal kind for him.  But the car wasn't built for Egbert in the strict sense.  

    As per George Krem:  The PO of Avanti 4765 said "Tag experimental trim....attn J. Husvar. No interior code or interior color was listed, so only J. Husvar  knows for sure. That car was one of two "Special" interior '63s.

    J. Husvar was the Trim Engineer for Studebaker who would have worked on interior upgrades.  I suspect it may have also been fitted with an experimental interior.  

    Craig

  11. On 3/6/2023 at 1:21 PM, John Hull said:

    If Studebaker got wind a non studebaker engine was going into an Avanti with the work being done at a subsidiary for legal and liability issues it would make sure no paper trail would exist at Studebaker on that car Also it would be god awful advertising a GM engine in a Studebaker product again liability issues ie engine blows warranty etc

    Officially at Studebaker it would not exist

    The tables turned a year later when Studebaker started using GM engines starting in the 1965 model year.  Newman & Altman used GM engine their Avanti II's.  

    Craig

  12. The seminars I attended were great; John Hull's, Alice Preston's, and Andy Beckman's on the Wednesday.  Unfortunately, I was unable to attend Jim Pepper's presentation on the Bonneville cars that evening as I had to head for home and be at work on Saturday.  Some of the information was new to me.  

    Agree with others, there could have been a few more cars on display, and a proper swap meet, but it was great just to see everyone again after 3 years from not being able to travel anywhere.  This meet was not the main point of my trip, therefore, I won't complain about any distance traveled.

    Craig

  13. On 5/4/2022 at 11:42 PM, Zedman said:

    Geeze,  is that all !? 😊  .  "From small beginnings, great things cometh !"

    Apparently, it was sketched on a still-folded napkin while he was in a coffee shop.

    Craig

  14. I thought it was the '1964' prototype car with the thicker seats (and Claret interior?), which was painted Avanti Maroon, and eventually assigned P6436 as a production paint code.

    Craig

  15. I will say 30; taking into account its the only way to open the trunk without, a) taking 'emergency action' of being an acrobat and having to crawl through the back seat area to do it, and b) the event of someone forcing the trunk closed on top of luggage stacked too high with the result of undue pressure on the latch assembly.

    Craig

  16. 14 hours ago, jtheteacher said:

    Avanti has Lark frame, Hawk windows, what else does it borrow from other Studes?

    All the window glass is unique to the Avanti, considering the Avanti was the first (and only) postwar Studebaker to have curved side glass.  Only Chrysler and Ford had cars in production with curved side glass when the Avanti was introduced.

    Craig

  17. On 1/17/2022 at 2:48 PM, Mrelmtow said:

    I doubt it will be ready by then.

    Please keep us posted on your progress.

    We are hoping to have a number of 'significant' Avantis at MCACN this year, including the last (Studebaker) Avanti made.

    Craig

  18. That is one reason I don't participate on that Forum as much as I used to.  

    When someone (usually new to the Forum) made an inquiry that was addressed and answered previously, I often copied & pasted the original post that provided an answer which was maybe done years ago.  It also saved me from having to repeat myself.  The Nazi moderator instantly locks it, considering its a 'necropost' because of its age, which becomes no longer relevant as its totally on topic and pertinent to the new poster's inquiry.  Besides making the newcomer uncomfortable, it also discourages participation by long-time posters, and defeats what a major reason a Forum is for; a resource and sharing of information related to the product it represents.  

    Craig

  19. The Production Order for the Studebaker SS:

    I question why it is 'Avanti trivia'.  It has a Jet Thrust engine as used in an R2 Lark or an R2 G.T. Hawk; not an 'R' engine as used in an Avanti, and received a non-Avanti serial number. 

     

    Craig

    63V37400.jpg

  20. On 11/14/2020 at 9:12 AM, studegary said:

    Toll Brothers has several housing developments in this area.  I just discovered that Toll has an Avanti model (house).  Appropriately, it has two, two car garages, one at each end of the house.

    Then they should have used a matching pair of '47's.

    Craig

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