Why?

[attrite1]

I've been operating under the opinion that Marketing the Marque should start with the owners of Avanti's, after all we acquired our cars because of the love(?) or enjoyment/pride/whatever we get when driving/showing the cars. There are already dozens of great restorations out there, but getting them into Concour's level shows has been difficult because they are not fully accepted within that circuit(clic). When shows like LaJolla took a chance at mine, I jumped at the opportunity and when iconic Concours Events like Palos Verdes decides to "Honor" Loewy's Avanti, I hope that every LA area car winds up being invited and shows up. In the several shows I entered I had to take some exception with the Class it was placed in, though. The Avanti, in my opinion does not belong in the Sports Car Group with Corvettes or Jags and I choose to be judged with the Closed Production cars from 49-68 or whatever year they use for a cut-off.

I would hope that AOAI could simply put together a Roster/Portfolio of cars it gets from it's membership that would best represent the Avanti name and provide that list to Concour's Show Promoters during the planning season so that the car can at least be allowed in whatever Class or Special Event Class they will promote. The past several years, these Concours Shows didn't even provide a Class that the Avanti could be shown in!....and perhaps that's because they don't know or believe that they're available. I don't mind showing mine, even though these shows can get a bit steep on their entry fees, my concern is on getting the car there and back in the same condition. The locations are great and give me an opportunity to have some quality time with my wife at a resort that we would not normally choose(or even be allowed in).

[Guest dapy]

James Bond,

I assume you are using the editorial "We". Wasn't that the name of an airplane that crashed in the Pacific that people are still looking for. That IMO is about as futile as making the Avanti more than it is. If you propose to form a group to further Avanti interest I will join. Give "we" a plan...

[James Bond]

James Bond,

I assume you are using the editorial "We". Wasn't that the name of an airplane that crashed in the Pacific that people are still looking for. That IMO is about as futile as making the Avanti more than it is. If you propose to form a group to further Avanti interest I will join. Give "we" a plan...

I don't know about the airplane. And I feel you're being cynical. WE are us...I'd think that would be obvious. We are the group. The plan has to come from us...that is why we're having this discussion. WE are talking about the possibilities, and what to do. The answer in not from without, but from within.

[J Boyle]

... "We". Wasn't that the name of an airplane that crashed in the Pacific that people are still looking for.

I think you're referring to Amelia Earhart. No "We" was not the name of her airplane.

The only "We" I'm familiar with in a historic aviation context is Charles Lindbergh wrote a book with that title about his 1927 flight to Paris in the Spirit of St. Louis.

[James Bond]

Found this on Comcast home page http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/affordable-classic-cars-1.aspx?ec_id=cmcta_01_comm_aut_sidelink While it talks about seniors. It also talks about value. Guess what one of the cars are?

[Guest dapy]

Just so, Lindbergh. Good catch. If I am cynical about our ability to improve the perception, image and $ value of the Avanti it is because I have worked with other affinity owner groups. The problem is that no one wants to take the 'leadership' responsibility. And it can only work through people.

With regard to the quoted 'retiree' article...That $17,500 price would be for 1963 R1 in #3 condition. According to the latest 'Hagerty Price Guide' a 1963-64 R2 in #1 (best of show condition) might fetch $44,900. By comparison an equally fine 1963 Hawk is valued at $46,500.

Edited June 7, 2013 by dapy

[Gunslinger]

While this is my opinion only, I do believe the Avanti has everything going for it...design pedigree, performance, safety and performance features (for the time), availability...everything but value in the free market. The Avanti, while generally well received when first introduced, failed for a variety of reasons. There were quality control issues, production issues, the stigma (unfairly so) of being a Studebaker, dealers who had no idea how to promote or sell them effectively, the "loser" identity from Studebaker failing as a car maker so soon after introduction...many reasons why. Raymond Loewy, while a highly respected industrial designer, was also considered an oddball and outside the mainstream automotive design community. Look at some of his personal designs and that is quite apparent. Let's be thankful his best ideas were incorporated into the Avanti design and the worst ideas discarded.

The Avanti holds status as a Milestone Car...only true car aficionados understand what that means. We all owe Nate Altman and the rest of those involved with Avanti Motors a huge debt of gratitude for saving the marque for as long as they did. They led the way for a small, cottage industry for parts and service so we can maintain these cars. With only a few left who have real institutional knowledge of the ins and out of these cars...the rest of us have learned by doing, experimenting and sharing what we've learned here and within local chapters.

The sad thing is the free market has decided the Avanti (with a few notable exceptions), isn't valued very high. We do have a small and dedicated number of enthusiasts who love the car for what it is and keep them on the road for enjoyment and exposure to the public...the public who for the most part has no knowledge that the Avanti ever existed...or of Studebaker for that matter.

The car market has changed...a generational change. My own observations, based in the area where I live, is that original type cars aren't valued as highly today. Today's generation is going after the rice-rocket cars and modifieds...resto-mods. They won't pay for an original, correct car of any make or model when they plan on cutting it up and modifying it. The generation that values original cars is dying off and I've seen values of many cars drop...not just due to the economy.

I've had my Avantis at many shows...I've heard many positive things about them. But has my enthusiasm and talking the cars up caused anyone to buy one? Not that I know of. It's still the Mustangs, Chevelles, Camaros, Mopars and a few others that still get the attention and mainstream acceptance.

I'm not being cynical...just recognizing reality. I'm optimistic about the future of Avantis in the future...there will always be a place for them. But it's up to us to show them, promote them, make the public aware of them. It's not going to happen by itself. In the end, though...the free market will continue to decide, fairly or unfairly, the value of our cars...both desirability-wise and financially.

[Guest dapy]

Gunny,

Astute. Generational, absolutely. I have seen this with same vintage 'out-of-production' airplanes. Median private pilot age is approaching 60. The article listed retirees affordable collectible cars. I suspect Avanti made the cut because of low entry price.

I'm new, but I believe AOAI has an inactive marketing/promotions committee. Don't know their mandate, but if someone here is going to Colorado Springs perhaps you could inquire and start the ball rolling.

[Gunslinger]

Not that the Avanti is the only vehicle that has this problem...but a major stumbling block is costs of restoration compared to fair market value. It's unfortunately just not there for most Avantis. I would venture to say that the average owner of a restored Avanti is well "upside-down" in costs incurred vs. market value. Unless you're incredibly capable personally and have the tools and a well equipped garage (or free access to one), it's more cost-effective to part out an otherwise restorable Avanti. My observation has been that the vast majority of Avantis surviving are either in need of restoration or have already been restored. There doesn't seem to be that many in the middle ground of solid "driver" condition.

To put it in terms of another make, take a Plymouth Barracuda with a slant-6 engine and an otherwise identical car equipped with a factory Hemi engine. With the exception of the engine itself, it takes just as much money and effort to restore one as the other to the same quality level. At the end, which is worth more? I know that's an extreme example, but the market for Barracudas with any engine is far bigger than the market for an Avanti.

We have (to us) a fabulous car...design, performance, rarity, etc., but we're a very small cultish group. As we age, retire and otherwise move on in life, are there any appreciable numbers of "replacement" owners to take our place? Future values of our cars depend on that as does the numbers of surviving Avantis as time goes on.

[James Bond]

While this is my opinion only, I do believe the Avanti has everything going for it...design pedigree, performance, safety and performance features (for the time), availability...everything but value in the free market. The Avanti, while generally well received when first introduced, failed for a variety of reasons. There were quality control issues, production issues, the stigma (unfairly so) of being a Studebaker, dealers who had no idea how to promote or sell them effectively, the "loser" identity from Studebaker failing as a car maker so soon after introduction...many reasons why. Raymond Loewy, while a highly respected industrial designer, was also considered an oddball and outside the mainstream automotive design community. Look at some of his personal designs and that is quite apparent. Let's be thankful his best ideas were incorporated into the Avanti design and the worst ideas discarded.

The Avanti holds status as a Milestone Car...only true car aficionados understand what that means. We all owe Nate Altman and the rest of those involved with Avanti Motors a huge debt of gratitude for saving the marque for as long as they did. They led the way for a small, cottage industry for parts and service so we can maintain these cars. With only a few left who have real institutional knowledge of the ins and out of these cars...the rest of us have learned by doing, experimenting and sharing what we've learned here and within local chapters.

The sad thing is the free market has decided the Avanti (with a few notable exceptions), isn't valued very high. We do have a small and dedicated number of enthusiasts who love the car for what it is and keep them on the road for enjoyment and exposure to the public...the public who for the most part has no knowledge that the Avanti ever existed...or of Studebaker for that matter.

The car market has changed...a generational change. My own observations, based in the area where I live, is that original type cars aren't valued as highly today. Today's generation is going after the rice-rocket cars and modifieds...resto-mods. They won't pay for an original, correct car of any make or model when they plan on cutting it up and modifying it. The generation that values original cars is dying off and I've seen values of many cars drop...not just due to the economy.

I've had my Avantis at many shows...I've heard many positive things about them. But has my enthusiasm and talking the cars up caused anyone to buy one? Not that I know of. It's still the Mustangs, Chevelles, Camaros, Mopars and a few others that still get the attention and mainstream acceptance.

I'm not being cynical...just recognizing reality. I'm optimistic about the future of Avantis in the future...there will always be a place for them. But it's up to us to show them, promote them, make the public aware of them. It's not going to happen by itself. In the end, though...the free market will continue to decide, fairly or unfairly, the value of our cars...both desirability-wise and financially.

Very well said! I agree with just everything you say. Especially the last line. The thing is, the free market CAN be swayed, and is all the time via the barrage of main stream media. We can do it too. We don't have the same resources, so it may take longer, but it can be done. This what we're trying to do here. Hopefully, through our discussions, a consensus of what to do will coalesce.

[Guest dapy]

This won't work without objectives and a plan that gives direction to our interest and action. We don't even have real names or email addresses.

A way to start is to develop a simple Web site that is the basis for an organization. I can help with content but not design. If someone knows benchmark sites as models that would help. This forum can not serve our communicaton needs except to help identify a group of like-minded workers. Who can develop the site?

Edited June 8, 2013 by dapy

[attrite1]

This won't work without objectives and a plan that gives direction to our interest and action. We don't even have real names or email addresses.

A way to start is to develop a simple Web site that is the basis for an organization. I can help with content but not design. If someone knows benchmark sites as models that would help. This forum can not serve our communicaton needs except to help identify a group of like-minded workers. Who can develop the site?

I am willing to participate in a small working group to assist in outlining a program in this area and given a "small working group", I'm not sure a separate site is a necessity. I'd like to think that AOAI should be considered as the focal point for what we attempt as they have been the 'basis' for maintaining the Avanti name & interest since 1965. There'a a lot of info here and in the back issues of Avanti Mag, just not in a friendly format. Perhaps just a separate header in the Forum? Of course that will likely require some level of 'approval' from the ruling body. Being denied that, then perhaps going with the alternate plan.

My reasons for assisting in this is the difficultly I found in gaining rudimentary knowledge in what an original Avanti was! It seems the early years of AOAI was focused not so much on preservation and documentation as it was in finding ways to modify and keep your Avanti on the road. So, Number 1 on my list is: The lack of any "Formal Documentation" of what an original Avanti was and what a restored Avanti should be built to! When you go to "restore" a Corvette, you go to NCRS, buy the "Bible" for the year of car and simply follow the recipe book. With my Avanti, there were several cross country trips to visit owners of particular models who had cars that they were willing to share with me, allowing me photographs, Q&A time and just kicking back and discussing options. There was no Known Standard. Now, I'm not sure that it's even possible to 'document' an Avanti given Egbert's constant evolution design thought. Still it would have been nice to have had something more than just the Manual and people's opinion's to refer to and future collector's will want to have a reference manual that they can "goto".

The idea of building a Marque's interest is a study of time and time works or moves through cycles. I believe we are getting past the "Muscle Car" Fad again and will slowly turn back to a Design led interest. Just look back in time and see how the Ferarri market reacted in it's price swings. This comes from a few discussions I've had with different type's of collector's. We've seen the initial price spikes in muscle cars and the resulting return to earth. The Great cars get great money, the others are no longer all commanding 6 figure numbers but are still getting valued quite a bit higher than the Avanti. The other major influencing factor is the capital flow of funds into the US from Europe & Japan. Money is seeking a "safer"(relatively) and higher rate of return, hence our stock is climbing while Europe's and Japan's are not. As capital accumulates in an economy it seeks value and when soft investments become overpriced and the fear of inflation starts running through the markets, money migrates to harder assets like undervalued collectibles. In order to attract that Capital, we've got to present an investment that shows some rarity, value, an aesthetic nature and is desirable or envious(read subtley sexy). Loewy had some GREAT Quotes on just those items, they nned to be "Marketed".

I can be reach via email thru the personal messenger on this site.

[Gunslinger]

Yes...there is a "bible" of sorts when it comes to Corvette restoration. There is still a number of unknowns when it comes to Corvettes so much is arguable with them. The sme can be said of Avantis as well. The two best "bibles" we have for the Avanti are the factory parts manuals (Studebaker cars only) and the build sheets, which are available for all Avantis through the meid 1980's at least. Even then there are some unknowns...especially when it comes to post Studebaker cars.

While there is some information available when certain changes went into effect it's by no means complete. My own opinion is some assembly workers for Avanti Motors did certain jobs one way and others did the same task another way. While the end result may have been essentially the same there were differences nonetheless.

What do we do when dealing with safety upgrades...such as installing a dual master cylinder on early cars? What about Altman cars when every car was spec'd differently for different buyers? That's why build sheets are so important.

Maybe the best we can do is use the SDC judging rule book as a guide...it's well established and accepted. Why reinvent the wheel?

What I would not want to see is the AOAI turn into a group where arguments break out about judging...what's original or correct. Tempers flaring does nothing to help an organization. I'm not saying this would happen but there is the potential.

Let's just love and enjoy our cars...we are open enough to allow purists and those who enjoy modifying their cars for whatever reason...safety...personal preference...for lacks of original parts...whatever reasons you can think of.

[James Bond]

Obviously, the AOAI is monitoring our conversation. They have the guts and ground works in place to assist us in our endeavor. Perhaps they didn't realize the discontent that's out there. I do believe they have our back, as well as they can. But perhaps a change of direction...more towards promotion than reporting. More towards outreach, than preaching to the choir. Maybe distributing the magazine at car shows. Would this cost...yes. But it is an investment. One I think we should make. it's in all our self interest. Of course, if they can't help us, then we're on our own. We can still use this site as a jumping off point. A place to meet until something else better comes along!

[James Bond]

I'd like to speak on a purely personal note. Reading and responding to all the posts here make me realize how much we love our cars. We know what we have, and we want everyone else to know it too! I just went down to my garage, and wiped my baby down and cleaned the exterior glass. The song that kept on running through my head was "Shine On You Crazy Diamond". Mine is a diamond, as is yours. Diamonds aren't always perfect...yet they're diamonds nonetheless. Show the facets of your diamond and shine!

[Gunslinger]

I'm not aware of any discontent in the AOAI. Maybe that's your perception and that's ok...I'm just saying I've not seen any. Having some differences is vital to any organization like this.

We have to keep in mind that this is not a large group...plus we're scattered all over the country, in Canada, Australia and Europe. That alone makes it difficult to do many substantive things beyond what's mandated by the group charter. In past years before an internet it was even tougher...everything had to be done by telephone and snail mail. Today things are much easier...but many, is not most, members are not retired with lots of time on their hands. Many are using their spare time in servicing and restoring their Avantis, as well as the enjoyment of driving them. Many things are done by local chapters as it's easier to make decisions and implement them locally than nationally. Working on the local level may even be more effective...but the results are also local.

I'm not criticizing you...you're passionate and that's a good thing. We need passion to keep the AOAI going and our Avantis on the road. Keep coming up with ideas but there's a process to do things on an official level...bring your ideas up to the AOAI officers and make a case for them. Good ideas can be implemented...some otherwise good ideas may not be doable due to other constraints...fiscal, legal (read that as not violating IRS laws for a non-profit association), etc.

Keep the passion.

[James Bond]

No criticism taken. And your right, I am passionate. I think we all are, just differently. I think we all want the same thing. What we have to do is try to find the right direction to go in to get what we want. Should we start another thread as to implemtation? I don't know. I do know we have something important going here, and I want it to continue.

Edited June 8, 2013 by James Bond

[attrite1]

That's why build sheets are so important.

Maybe the best we can do is use the SDC judging rule book as a guide...it's well established and accepted. Why reinvent the wheel?

What I would not want to see is the AOAI turn into a group where arguments break out about judging...what's original or correct. Tempers flaring does nothing to help an organization. I'm not saying this would happen but there is the potential.

Let's just love and enjoy our cars...we are open enough to allow purists and those who enjoy modifying their cars for whatever reason...safety...personal preference...for lacks of original parts...whatever reasons you can think of.

Yes, the build sheets are a very good source and helped me identify a car that had been previously amateurly restored, likely from whatever parts were available. My wife's Avanti also a '63 had been "renewed" by Newman/Altman in ~ 1983 replacing the 289/4-speed with a 350 Chevy/Turbo 400/flanged Dana 44 and the interior was an '83 vintage Avanti II complete with Recarro's. Today that car could be only be described as a RestoRod with an LS motor and AiRide Suspension, so I play in both pools too!

It was nice to find out under all that old paint and amateur resto job resided exactly the car/color combo I had always wanted. What gave me 'Ojida' was the nuts & bolts part of the restoration. It's sad to still read the SDC site about people trying to find where certain decals belong or if they even did in the first place! I'm not one who likes to initiate controversy, but we need to find a way to separate opinions from fact and if they are not aligned, Judging Standards should at least be brought in-line with the same standards used in Nationally recognized Concour's Shows to move the Marque forward and achieve acceptance within the Collector Community,............... that's the most I would expect to achieve. If tempers flare over that, then .......there's not much hope within this community and it WILL be time to move on separately.

[James Bond]

I am willing to participate in a small working group to assist in outlining a program in this area and given a "small working group", I'm not sure a separate site is a necessity. I'd like to think that AOAI should be considered as the focal point for what we attempt as they have been the 'basis' for maintaining the Avanti name & interest since 1965. There'a a lot of info here and in the back issues of Avanti Mag, just not in a friendly format. Perhaps just a separate header in the Forum? Of course that will likely require some level of 'approval' from the ruling body. Being denied that, then perhaps going with the alternate plan.

My reasons for assisting in this is the difficultly I found in gaining rudimentary knowledge in what an original Avanti was! It seems the early years of AOAI was focused not so much on preservation and documentation as it was in finding ways to modify and keep your Avanti on the road. So, Number 1 on my list is: The lack of any "Formal Documentation" of what an original Avanti was and what a restored Avanti should be built to! When you go to "restore" a Corvette, you go to NCRS, buy the "Bible" for the year of car and simply follow the recipe book. With my Avanti, there were several cross country trips to visit owners of particular models who had cars that they were willing to share with me, allowing me photographs, Q&A time and just kicking back and discussing options. There was no Known Standard. Now, I'm not sure that it's even possible to 'document' an Avanti given Egbert's constant evolution design thought. Still it would have been nice to have had something more than just the Manual and people's opinion's to refer to and future collector's will want to have a reference manual that they can "goto".

The idea of building a Marque's interest is a study of time and time works or moves through cycles. I believe we are getting past the "Muscle Car" Fad again and will slowly turn back to a Design led interest. Just look back in time and see how the Ferarri market reacted in it's price swings. This comes from a few discussions I've had with different type's of collector's. We've seen the initial price spikes in muscle cars and the resulting return to earth. The Great cars get great money, the others are no longer all commanding 6 figure numbers but are still getting valued quite a bit higher than the Avanti. The other major influencing factor is the capital flow of funds into the US from Europe & Japan. Money is seeking a "safer"(relatively) and higher rate of return, hence our stock is climbing while Europe's and Japan's are not. As capital accumulates in an economy it seeks value and when soft investments become overpriced and the fear of inflation starts running through the markets, money migrates to harder assets like undervalued collectibles. In order to attract that Capital, we've got to present an investment that shows some rarity, value, an aesthetic nature and is desirable or envious(read subtley sexy). Loewy had some GREAT Quotes on just those items, they nned to be "Marketed".

I can be reach via email thru the personal messenger on this site.

Yes, they do need to be marketed, I think we're all agreed on that. But do what we use as the hook? Rarity, design, performance? We have these on our side, at least historically. I really do believe this has to start as a grass roots effort, something that has to come from us. This is the start, this is the beginning, the nascence of the rebirth of the Avanti in the public's imagination. We're going to need some help along the way, but we are the root! Edited June 9, 2013 by James Bond

[James Bond]

Yes, the build sheets are a very good source and helped me identify a car that had been previously amateurly restored, likely from whatever parts were available. My wife's Avanti also a '63 had been "renewed" by Newman/Altman in ~ 1983 replacing the 289/4-speed with a 350 Chevy/Turbo 400/flanged Dana 44 and the interior was an '83 vintage Avanti II complete with Recarro's. Today that car could be only be described as a RestoRod with an LS motor and AiRide Suspension, so I play in both pools too!

It was nice to find out under all that old paint and amateur resto job resided exactly the car/color combo I had always wanted. What gave me 'Ojida' was the nuts & bolts part of the restoration. It's sad to still read the SDC site about people trying to find where certain decals belong or if they even did in the first place! I'm not one who likes to initiate controversy, but we need to find a way to separate opinions from fact and if they are not aligned, Judging Standards should at least be brought in-line with the same standards used in Nationally recognized Concour's Shows to move the Marque forward and achieve acceptance within the Collector Community,............... that's the most I would expect to achieve. If tempers flare over that, then .......there's not much hope within this community and it WILL be time to move on separately.

I really don't think you have to worry about tempers flaring. Yours is a reasonable statement and request. As far as build sheets are concerned, I've been trying to find one for my baby to no avail. From what I hear, record keeping could be lax at times! All you can do is the best you can. You may not always be up to specs...so what! It's the respect that you show your car...not the specs!

[James Bond]

You know, this may anger a lot of Mustang, Corvette, and Mercedes owners, (of any year). But when I'm driving my baby around, and I see one, I think in the words of Madeline Kahn in "Blazing Saddles", "Oh, how ordinarwy!" (sic). You should too!

[James Bond]

And not just THOSE cars!!!

[attrite1]

Yes, they do need to be marketed, I think we're all agreed on that. But do we use as the hook? Rarity, design, performance? We have these on our side, at least historically. I really do believe this has to start a grass roots effort, something that has to come from us. This is the start, this is the beginning, the nascence of the rebirth of the Avanti in the public's imagination. We're going to need some help along the way, but we are the root!

I've used ALL 3! and it covers a wider swath of the Collector market. The higher end collector will likely need to understand more about Loewy and his design history to pump up his interest, while performance will be a tough sell because of a limited racing history.

The Studebaker Avanti is already a rare Model, the Design has been recognized by most in the automotive world as one of the most elegant and perhaps Loewy's Best work(although I do like the '53 too), performance has to be tied into Granatelli's achievements at Bonneville so people will listen to that point, of course it doesn't hurt to mention several road tests in '63 showed that the Avanti had a faster 1/4mi time than the '64 GTO and perhaps even showing some YouTube clips of Avanti's beating Mopar 440 6-packs @ PSMCD wouldn't hurt. I've just been able to download the "Bonneville Record Breaker" to my laptop and I intend to play it on my laptop while the car is on display at the next Show I'm at!. Also I found a company in LA that RENTS 20' enclosed car haulers so I don't even have to buy a car hauler now........that save's a few bucks..........now taking the car to shows all over The People's Republic of California is going to be open to me.

While the car is never going to be a CCCA Classic, it will start to develope the image that we are able to put forward(providing we all agree on what the key areas to highlight) if we show them enough times. You have to put the image in front of new viewers enough for them to accept it. I imagine that once people see and understand what the car is the first few will go after the Avanti II cars, because they're typically a little bit more affordable AND they have that Chevy drivetrain that most are used to and can easily get parts for...............the more adventureous will go after the R2's, then the R1's. I don't see (m)ANY current R3 owner's walking away from their prizes. The majority of those are in good hands with full restorations planned or underway and they will be the price leaders as several recent sales have shown. I was really hoping that #5642 would break 100K as that would finally break that glass ceiling and attract some attention.

The Rarity numbers are favorable for the Avanti, over it's 2 year production run only some 4650 were made vs 21K '63 Stingrays(10K split window coupe's) or 40K '63 Buick Rivieras. I don't know exactly the remaining numbers are but I imagine we can come up with a close approximation via the Registry numbers, same with R1 vs R2's, I know I've seen those numbers somewhere here or on SDC. Perhaps the museum has them instantly available.

I'm working on getting some automotive Posters on the Avanti made with my "sales Script" printed over a faint B/W photo of an Avanti @ Bonneville so more people can read about what I'm trying to display(and it'll save my voice).

Obviously this year being the 50th Anniversary of the design would have been the ideal year to put a 1000 Avanti's on Display, but it's a little late now. Frankly I'm very surprised that more shows didn't use a "50 Year Celebration of 1963 Automotive Design" concept. Someone(Hagerty?, Hemmings?) put out a mag earlier this year showing the Stingray, Avanti & Riviera on the cover, would've been a great show with just those 3 Models.

[J Boyle]

Oddly, I just came from our monthly SDC meeting which was held this month at a park as a pot-luck picnic event. I had the only Avanti there and at the end I went to my6 car and found a middle aged guy admiring it. He's an architect and knew all about Raymond Loewy...he loves the car. I told him how affordable they were and showed him a story on my car's restoration in a copy of the Avanti magazine I had in the back seat (I took the car to a show yesterday. Will he take the leap? who knows. but again, without having my car there to be seen, we would not have had the CHANCE to turn a fan into an owner.

[Guest dapy]

I think the four or five of us are getting a bit off the track of the original subject. Hard to recall what that was...

Happens because although we own Avantis our interests in them and experience with them is diverse and personal. What exactly do we want to happen? Too soon to say how that might be accomplished. I have sent email to Schucart and James volunteering and asking what are the objectives of the Marketing/Promotions Committee. No answer yet.

Rather than long, involved forum messages I would propose to start more direct communication between us. Not to hide our interest, but to work on a plan of action. Anyone attending Colorado Springs? Send me ideas and let's see how this develops...Dave Pyle dap8@comcast.net...I'm in Houston.