Air conditioning system

[Michael]

I have an '89 conv with an Acme Radiator (Goshen, Indiana) a/c system and vacuum control head. The company now known as Mobile Climate Control in Goshen has no records...The a/c system uses what I call the standard GM components in the engine compartment, under the hood. In the passenger compartment is the Acme system. The a/c compressor and all components are cooling as they should (I can get the accumulator to sweat and a cold suction line) but I cannot get cold air to be delivered to the dash vent openings. The system will deliver/blow heated, and non-a/c air to the dash vents, defrost position, and floor vents. All seems to be opertaing regularly except for delivery of the cold air to the dash vents. There are 4 vac actuators under the dash and I was wondering if anyone knows this system and the actuator sequences required to deliver the cold air.

[Alberto]

I have an '89 conv with an Acme Radiator (Goshen, Indiana) a/c system and vacuum control head. The company now known as Mobile Climate Control in Goshen has no records...The a/c system uses what I call the standard GM components in the engine compartment, under the hood. In the passenger compartment is the Acme system. The a/c compressor and all components are cooling as they should (I can get the accumulator to sweat and a cold suction line) but I cannot get cold air to be delivered to the dash vent openings. The system will deliver/blow heated, and non-a/c air to the dash vents, defrost position, and floor vents. All seems to be opertaing regularly except for delivery of the cold air to the dash vents. There are 4 vac actuators under the dash and I was wondering if anyone knows this system and the actuator sequences required to deliver the cold air.

Sorry about a delayed response but I just happened to be browsing the Studebaker talks and was not aware there was an Avanti one also. I had similar problem with my convertible. As it turned out the temperature lever in the dash for the A]C control had become disengaged from the control wire that goes to the control valve on the heater hose under the hood in the engine compartment. The symptoms were as you describe and in happened at the beggining of the hot weather(March here in FL) after having used the heat during the winter. Easy way to check if this is the problem just manually turn the heater valve at the hose under the dash. In my case I had to remove the radio to gain better access to the heater control cable. Good luck in your endeavors Alberto

[Michael]

Thanks Alberto. Good insight. I did shut off the gate valve on the hose, under the hood. I also clamped the hoses shut going from the engine compartment through the firewall, in case the valve was not operating properly. I still have the trouble where the system will not blow cold air from the a/c. With the valve under the hood turned off the system will blow "ambient air", little or no temperature change from the input air temperature. When I open the valve the air becomes heated. My trials and tribulations continue.

[wdaly]

Thanks Alberto. Good insight. I did shut off the gate valve on the hose, under the hood. I also clamped the hoses shut going from the engine compartment through the firewall, in case the valve was not operating properly. I still have the trouble where the system will not blow cold air from the a/c. With the valve under the hood turned off the system will blow "ambient air", little or no temperature change from the input air temperature. When I open the valve the air becomes heated. My trials and tribulations continue.

In addition to the Heater valve (hot water) there is also an Air Box Diverter control that should operate in conjunction with the 'Hot - Cold' dash lever. This control moves a door inside the air box from hot air to AC air (directly from the evap core). Check if this is disconnected or binding. Look right under the passenger side dash for a 'hook-like' control lever that should have a cable attached.

[Michael]

I can't seem to find the cable you are referring to. I only see one cable attached to the temp slide control, and it is attached on the driver side of the lever, behind the control unit. The only place I can see up under or into the dash on the pass side is at the pass left knee area, up against the console. Through the small opening, in the picture attached, I can see the air box and a vacuum actuator can with a yellow vacuum line to it. This vac actuator gets vacuum delivered to it whenever the heat and defrost buttons on the dash control are pushed. Otherwise, in all other positions there is no vac to it. This actuator is sitting directly behind the radio, about 8" behind the dash front surface and 6" below the radio plane. When the vac line is removed from the actuator the system looses its ability to channel air to the floor. When connected this actuator seems to control air flow to the floor, in the defrost and heat modes. Is this in the area of the actuator where the cable or damper door you refer to should be? Or maybe where you are referring to as the passenger side is above the footwell area, where I need to remove the carpeted box covering the blower motor? Thank you

Mike

[wdaly]

I can't seem to find the cable you are referring to. I only see one cable attached to the temp slide control, and it is attached on the driver side of the lever, behind the control unit. The only place I can see up under or into the dash on the pass side is at the pass left knee area, up against the console. Through the small opening, in the picture attached, I can see the air box and a vacuum actuator can with a yellow vacuum line to it. This vac actuator gets vacuum delivered to it whenever the heat and defrost buttons on the dash control are pushed. Otherwise, in all other positions there is no vac to it. This actuator is sitting directly behind the radio, about 8" behind the dash front surface and 6" below the radio plane. When the vac line is removed from the actuator the system looses its ability to channel air to the floor. When connected this actuator seems to control air flow to the floor, in the defrost and heat modes. Is this in the area of the actuator where the cable or damper door you refer to should be? Or maybe where you are referring to as the passenger side is above the footwell area, where I need to remove the carpeted box covering the blower motor? Thank you

Mike

Actually, when you said ACME and Goshen I asaumed your '89 was the same as my '88. It may still be. You definitely must remove the passenger side carpeted section attached to the bottom of the dash to see the 'lever'. In addition, you can remove the radio and look and see if the 2nd cable is attached to the control (slide lever) HOT - COLD. I had the same problem as you (not very good COOL) until the AC shop determined that hot water was still going to the heater core even though they valve was off (apparently not 100% OFF) so they spliced in an actual shut-off valve onto the input hose and it worked! You seem to already have that situation under control so I thought I would mention the air box Door. I have totally removed this entire system in order to replace a bad heater core last year - you could say I dissected the part of the car (and NO, I would not want to do it again).

Bill D

[Alberto]

I can't seem to find the cable you are referring to. I only see one cable attached to the temp slide control, and it is attached on the driver side of the lever, behind the control unit. The only place I can see up under or into the dash on the pass side is at the pass left knee area, up against the console. Through the small opening, in the picture attached, I can see the air box and a vacuum actuator can with a yellow vacuum line to it. This vac actuator gets vacuum delivered to it whenever the heat and defrost buttons on the dash control are pushed. Otherwise, in all other positions there is no vac to it. This actuator is sitting directly behind the radio, about 8" behind the dash front surface and 6" below the radio plane. When the vac line is removed from the actuator the system looses its ability to channel air to the floor. When connected this actuator seems to control air flow to the floor, in the defrost and heat modes. Is this in the area of the actuator where the cable or damper door you refer to should be? Or maybe where you are referring to as the passenger side is above the footwell area, where I need to remove the carpeted box covering the blower motor? Thank you

Mike

It appears that the actuator is working properly. If you can completely shut off water circulation to the heater core and still get no cooling (ambient air temperature coming out of the vents) I would strongly suspect you are out of Freon. See if the compressor cycles on and off, if little Freon is left. The A/C system used Freon 12 and after years, especially if A/C unused or seldom used, it will escape. If system was changed over to 134a and the original hoses were not changed, the 134a will leak thru the hoses, as the 134a is much smaller molecule than the 12. Had this sad experience with the '78. This will happen at different speed depending on the condition of the system in my case it took about 7 to 8 months. Hope you get this resolved before the dog days of summer get here. Alberto

[Alberto]

I can't seem to find the cable you are referring to. I only see one cable attached to the temp slide control, and it is attached on the driver side of the lever, behind the control unit. The only place I can see up under or into the dash on the pass side is at the pass left knee area, up against the console. Through the small opening, in the picture attached, I can see the air box and a vacuum actuator can with a yellow vacuum line to it. This vac actuator gets vacuum delivered to it whenever the heat and defrost buttons on the dash control are pushed. Otherwise, in all other positions there is no vac to it. This actuator is sitting directly behind the radio, about 8" behind the dash front surface and 6" below the radio plane. When the vac line is removed from the actuator the system looses its ability to channel air to the floor. When connected this actuator seems to control air flow to the floor, in the defrost and heat modes. Is this in the area of the actuator where the cable or damper door you refer to should be? Or maybe where you are referring to as the passenger side is above the footwell area, where I need to remove the carpeted box covering the blower motor? Thank you

Mike

It appears that the actuator is working properly. If you can completely shut off water circulation to the heater core and still get no cooling (ambient air temperature coming out of the vents) I would strongly suspect you are out of Freon. See if the compressor cycles on and off, if little Freon is left. The A/C system used Freon 12 and after years, especially if A/C unused or seldom used, it will escape. If system was changed over to 134a and the original hoses were not changed, the 134a will leak thru the hoses, as the 134a is much smaller molecule than the 12. Had this sad experience with the '78. This will happen at different speed depending on the condition of the system in my case it took about 7 to 8 months. Hope you get this resolved before the dog days of summer get here. Alberto

[Alberto]

I can't seem to find the cable you are referring to. I only see one cable attached to the temp slide control, and it is attached on the driver side of the lever, behind the control unit. The only place I can see up under or into the dash on the pass side is at the pass left knee area, up against the console. Through the small opening, in the picture attached, I can see the air box and a vacuum actuator can with a yellow vacuum line to it. This vac actuator gets vacuum delivered to it whenever the heat and defrost buttons on the dash control are pushed. Otherwise, in all other positions there is no vac to it. This actuator is sitting directly behind the radio, about 8" behind the dash front surface and 6" below the radio plane. When the vac line is removed from the actuator the system looses its ability to channel air to the floor. When connected this actuator seems to control air flow to the floor, in the defrost and heat modes. Is this in the area of the actuator where the cable or damper door you refer to should be? Or maybe where you are referring to as the passenger side is above the footwell area, where I need to remove the carpeted box covering the blower motor? Thank you

Mike

It appears that the actuator is working properly. If you can completely shut off water circulation to the heater core and still get no cooling (ambient air temperature coming out of the vents) I would strongly suspect you are out of Freon. See if the compressor cycles on and off, if little Freon is left. The A/C system used Freon 12 and after years, especially if A/C unused or seldom used, it will escape. If system was changed over to 134a and the original hoses were not changed, the 134a will leak thru the hoses, as the 134a is much smaller molecule than the 12. Had this sad experience with the '78. This will happen at different speed depending on the condition of the system in my case it took about 7 to 8 months. Hope you get this resolved before the dog days of summer get here. Alberto

[Michael]

Thanks Bill D.

I will remove the carpeted box under the dash on the pass side. I had this box off a fews back when I lost hi speed on the blower mtr. I replaced both the resistor assembly and the blower motor as long as I had the underdash box removed. At the time I was hoping for a way to get more volume from the blower motor. I have always thought it was weak. I have never had the radio out of the car, but that can't be too big a job.

Do you remember if there were 5 vac lines to the back of your dash control head? 1 source and 4 supply lines to the vac actuators? I am not sure what defines whether a car has the "Acme" system or not. A couple yrs after I bought the car the Avanti factory guys in Youngstown had me take the car to Goshen for the water valve problem you described. The Acme people confirmed the system was theirs. My car has the radial "R6" compressor without a high or low pressure cutout switch on the back of the compressor. I have been told this is not the typical GM compressor because it does not have the high and low pressure cutous in the back. Also, my 89 is the only 89 I have seen that has the a/c compressor on the driver side of the engine compartment. The other '89s I have seen have the compressor on the pass side of the engine compartment. Where is your compressor? Pass or driver side?

[wdaly]

Thanks Bill D.

I will remove the carpeted box under the dash on the pass side. I had this box off a fews back when I lost hi speed on the blower mtr. I replaced both the resistor assembly and the blower motor as long as I had the underdash box removed. At the time I was hoping for a way to get more volume from the blower motor. I have always thought it was weak. I have never had the radio out of the car, but that can't be too big a job.

Do you remember if there were 5 vac lines to the back of your dash control head? 1 source and 4 supply lines to the vac actuators? I am not sure what defines whether a car has the "Acme" system or not. A couple yrs after I bought the car the Avanti factory guys in Youngstown had me take the car to Goshen for the water valve problem you described. The Acme people confirmed the system was theirs. My car has the radial "R6" compressor without a high or low pressure cutout switch on the back of the compressor. I have been told this is not the typical GM compressor because it does not have the high and low pressure cutous in the back. Also, my 89 is the only 89 I have seen that has the a/c compressor on the driver side of the engine compartment. The other '89s I have seen have the compressor on the pass side of the engine compartment. Where is your compressor? Pass or driver side?

Hi Mike:

There are 5 vac lines including the 'source' line. I think the Blue one was used to OPEN/CLOSE the 'Intake" air door at the Blower box (might want to check that one - can you hear it open/close with operation of the push buttons?). The BLEND air Door is what I have been mentioning. If it is disconnected from the control cable it will 'spring' into a normally open position for HEAT, but IF you have absolutely NO hot water going to the Heater core it shouldn't really matter for test of AC concerns. A while back someone here mentioned moving the actual "air intake" with large diameter flexible hose in order to get cooler fresh air from the front of the car rather than from behind the passenger side wheel opening underneath the wheel well. I worked for me with cooler air all around! My AC compressor is on the driver's side and your Caprice-based unit should really be on the passenger side from pictures I have seen previously.

Good luck,

Bill D

[Michael]

Hi Bill,

Please tell me more about moving the outside air intake to the front of the car. Sounds like a good project for next winter..When I replaced my blower mtr and fan speed control yrs ago I took the Max a/c door (yes, blue vac line) and rigged it to always stay open so I nebver pull outside air from under the car. I am in the Chicago N. suburbs and would like to see your car sometime.

[wdaly]

Hi Bill,

Please tell me more about moving the outside air intake to the front of the car. Sounds like a good project for next winter..When I replaced my blower mtr and fan speed control yrs ago I took the Max a/c door (yes, blue vac line) and rigged it to always stay open so I nebver pull outside air from under the car. I am in the Chicago N. suburbs and would like to see your car sometime.

Mike:

I'm originally from Skokie. We'll have to get together sometime. Basically, the outdoor air (instead of coming from a grille below the windshield) comes from an approx 5" round opening that has a metal screen for debris (NO Interior air filters in those days). This hole/opening is located underneath the passenger side wheel well covering (black) on the firewall, if you will. You have to take the tire off to start. Once 'inside' you can also see the front of the, what I'll call, metal adapter that connects the body with the body mounts.

Bill