How many Avantis were actually built at Villa Rica and Cancun

[Guest DRN]

Driving in Cherry Hill, NJ the other day, I was stunned to see a champagne color Firebird based Avanti convertible pulling into a Wendy's drive thru. The car was absolutely striking. I'd seen the new Avantis in pictures and even one at a local "dealer", but there was no comparison to seeing the car on the road amongst other cars. The new Avanti's were produced for six years, and I live in what should be a hot bed of them as there were two dealers in the area: AMA in Philly, and Auto Toy Store in NJ, yet this is the first one I'd seen on the road.

Has anyone seen final production figures of the Villa Rica and Cancun cars? Are they that scarce or just rarely driven?

[Gunslinger]

From John Hull's new book "Avanti", he gives a figure of 53 Avanti's assembled on the Firebird platform from 2001-2004 (I own #20). He gives an approximate figure of 38 built from 2005-2007 on the Ford platform. Mr. Hull stated there are unconfirmed reports of cars sitting on the factory floor in various stages of assembly after the shutdown.

[Guest DRN]

Wow. The Avanti lit indicated they would build about a 100 a year, and at one point they indicated up to 400 per year. All pipe dreams I guess. Some listings for 2001-2007 Avantis up for resale state "one of only 75 built this year"...guess that was the whole of the production.

Of the three types: GM F-body platform, Fox platform Mustang, and Ford D2C Mustang platform, it sounds like the Fords are the most rare. Of the 38 Ford based cars, I wonder how production figures worked out Fox vs. D2C? The Fox platform was closer in size to the Studebaker/Newman-Altman cars, but the elegant proportions of Kellogg's AVX prototype were compromised; I still liked the car, however. The later D2C platform cars were closer to the Kellogg original, and I particularly liked the return of a coupe.

I hope that with all the effort that went into the design of new cars and the manufacture of tooling, there is some way the the company, or at least its name and tooling, can be extricated from the Kelly mess and produced again with the integrity that was the hallmark of the Newman-Altman era.

Edited June 19, 2008 by DRN

[Gunslinger]

If you go back to sales literature and news stories during the Newman-Altman years, they generally stated they built less than 300 per year. That was a true statement as they usually built around 100 cars per year. It wasn't until Blake owned the company that production increased anywhere near the 300 number, and we all know how that turned out! Increasing production didn't create Steve Blake's downfall...he made so many changes so fast, plus the paint debacle combined with new body molding processes being instituted without proper testing first to see if there were any compatibility issues, such problems could and should have been foreseen, but that's in hindsight. Then there was the Avanti GT and racing effort...worthwhile in concept, but again in hindsight, should have been delayed until the company was firm ground, financially and production issues ironed out. As it was, spending all that capital on those efforts would have been better invested in the basic product.

I have my '02 and '70 Avanti's parked side by side in the garage...the '70 is longer, more interior room, a bigger and more usable trunk. The '02 is wider, far more powerful, handles like it's on rails and has more comfortable seats. Of course...there's many years and several generations of automotive technology advances between the two. The '70 sits on a 1950's era chassis design...the '02 sits on a much more modern chassis, with far more aftermarket tweaks available to make it even better. It's really apples and oranges between them.

The dash layout of the '70 is so classic...all the information you need grouped in a logical manner right in front of you. Maybe the only improvement ever on the classic Avanti layout is the HUD display optional on new Corvettes. The worst I can really say about the '02 is that it still carries the Firebird dash and amenities. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's obvious the car's origins. It does get tiring listening to "It's just a re-skinned Camaro". That's almost as bad as constantly hearing "Are they still made in Canada?"

[Ernie]

Don't forget, that J. J. Caffaro "promised" the Youngstown, Ohio officials that he was going to start producing 1,000 cars a year! Coupes, 4-doors, convertibles, long wheel base coupes, and limos!

[ctodd70]

From John Hull's new book "Avanti", he gives a figure of 53 Avanti's assembled on the Firebird platform from 2001-2004 (I own #20). He gives an approximate figure of 38 built from 2005-2007 on the Ford platform. Mr. Hull stated there are unconfirmed reports of cars sitting on the factory floor in various stages of assembly after the shutdown.

I, Carl Todd, KC area, 816-331-8722, own #38, a 2002 Avanti Gt Convertible painted PPG Haloquin Mystic. I worked for Kelly and John Corwin. I was in the factory alot and have pictures of the first Ford powered Avanti being sculped in the shop along side 3 Beck cars, and the prototype wagon. Kelly told me that my car is the highest window sticker car produced (over $110,000.00) and that 58 Avanti's were produced in 2002 with only 6 being convetibles and mine was the only vortech Supercharged version and only convertible painted Haloquin Mystic.

In his sales organization, he gave away 5 cars in 2001 and 3 in 2002. My car is one of the 2002 sales reward cars that I over loaded with options and special paint. Due to his business falling behind in paying my commissions and bonuses I left his organization in Nov 2002 and only talked to him again when he wanted me to stop moving my clients out of his program. I continued to visit the factory regularly wanting to purchase a Ford powered version. Jim would not let me order one with the PPG Haloquin Mystic so no sale occurred.

I visited Kelly in Cancun from May of 2001 to November of 2002 every 5 weeks or so. Just in Cancun they had at least 10 2001 and 2002 Avanti's for Kelly, John, and staff. This included Kelly;s 2001 hardtop PPG Haloquin Mystic car that made me paint mine that color. I asked this quest from Quinn, John corwin, and the factory several times and was finally in 2003 told that 58 2002 Avanti cars were produced. I know that he was shipping cars to Mexico regularly and most likely selling them without US acknowledgements. I believe that 1/3rd of the Avanti's were shipped out of the country and not well documented.

John Corwin once told me that they shipped 10 cars in 2003 to Europe to a new dealer. In 2003, 3 cars were also shipped to Olathe, Kansas to a new dealer.

[Sandy B.]

I am looking at a 2004 title Avanti Convert. Supercharged, automatic, NO trunk CD changer. Seems to be in excellent condition. used, about 6,200 miles. Bright Yellow, black leather - yellow stitching.

What is a reasonable price for such a car.

2nd question, does anyone know WHAT the colors available for the Firebird derived Avanti of '01 thru '04 were?

Any exterior color charts in anyones collections?

Am I correct in believing that there is no access to ANY exterior cosmetic parts ? I read wehere the door handles are Olds Aurora and the side front marking lite is from some year Taurus. But, say you wind up needing a trunk lid....then what??

Thanks.

Sandy

[Gunslinger]

I don't know what limits there might have been for color selection on those years. I've never seen a color chart for "standard" colors available. My car is painted Corvette Torch Red, which is an easy color for touch up if necessary. Some cars apparently were painted some custom colors, but whether that was done by factory choice or for a specific customer order I have no idea. Not a whole lot of information has come out regarding color or interior options on these cars.

About the only options listed in factory literature were a choice of coupe or convertible, manual or automatic transmission and a supercharger option. Everything else was standard. The literature makes no mention of color choices.

Price on a 2004 Avanti with supercharger? I'm guessing as the market is so limited, but I'd say $35k-$40k, but that's using the SWAG method...Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guess. The original sticker price on that car was about $85k-$95k. I think those MSRP retails were inflated to provide dealers with plenty of profit margin to play with when making deals. My '02 had a sticker price of $83.5k and I bought it for far, far less than that and I'm the first and only owner.

As far as the possibility of needing exterior replacement parts down the road...unless Avanti Motors rises again, we're probably out of luck. Not being too smart-a$$ed, you should have a good fiberglass man in your rolodex. Some parts were sourced by adapting them from other cars. As you said, the door handles were from an Olds Aurora and the front side marker lights from a mid-90's Taurus, but for most part, it was all custom fabricated. I'm aware of no source for body and trim parts for this era Avanti.

You pays yer money and takes yer chances! As much as I love driving my '02, I've become very careful when and where I drive it.

[Sandy B.]

Thanks! I was thinking about $37,000. But, it's scary to me to buy a car for which I cannot get cosmetic parts, such as rear & front bumper covers, Deck lid and hood, Especially on a plastic car.

I have seen 01-04 in your red, black, white, yellow and silver. Me thinks that mighta been IT. I think the yellow is also the corvette yellow. All 5 very well could have been from the Corvette.

[Gunslinger]

I'm pretty sure the yellow is Corvette Millennium Yellow...that can determined easily enough with color chips. A good paint shop can match it easily if necessary or if you simply want a bottle of touch up paint.

There were a few custom color paint jobs done...they're shown in some of the literature. Some may well have been one car only.

If you can get the car for that price range and it's in the shape you say, you should jump on it. I doubt if that many were built with the supercharger option. When I bought my car, the dealer had several other new Avanti's...a white coupe, a blue convertible and a yellow '04 with the blower, besides my red convertible. The red car simply talked to me, and I'm not normally one to drive an "arrest me red" car. I wonder if the car you're considering might be the yellow one on their lot?

[Sandy B.]

No, it's a Calif. car. I have come across 2 others with the supercharger. Oddly, BOTH were the yellow. Also found a yellow Non-Supercharger car. None of this was recent, I am speaking of from 2002 thru 3 weeks ago!

I have NOT seen a Supercharged example in any other color? Have you?

[Gunslinger]

Looking at the sales literature put out by Avanti Motors, there's a purple coupe and a blue (maybe Corvette Electron Blue) convertible that show supercharged emblems. Outside of that, I have no idea if any other cars had superchargers. It was a $10k option...I would think not too many out of the 53 GM based cars had it.

My '02 without a supercharger has a few modifications and is probably pushing a good bit more than the 345hp it's rated at. That's plenty powerful and fast enough for me.

[Sandy B.]

That is THE one piece of sales lit that I do NOT have! You are lucky to have it. I have all the rest from 1990 forward. and some from the 1970s.

[Guest DRN]

I came across an article at the following link:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/avanti-cars4.htm

It appears to have been written sometime in early '06. It is unusual in that it is so specific about how many cars were built each model year and that it seems so at odds with the figures Mr. Hull's book. I question who wrote the article and where they got their information. From the article, it is suggested that the Villa Rica Avanti production was:

77 cars in '02

88 cars in '03

102 cars in '04

46 cars in '05 (Ford/Fox based)

The article paints a rather rosy picture and even states that Kelly's father Leonard was installed as president of the car company. The Chuck Beck projects (Lister and 904 Porsche replicas) are mentioned, but credit is skewed away from Beck and toward Kelly. I question the accuracy or motives of the article, but I thought it should be seen be those here who might be interested.

[Gunslinger]

I would tend to believe John Hull's figures are correct. He doesn't have a vested interest in providing inflated figures like the company might when trying to find a buyer. Also...the figures in the article could include sales of used Avanti's as they also has prior generation Avanti's in inventory for sale as well. The sales of Beck and Lister cars could also be included as they were produced by Avanti Motors.

[Sandy B.]

The figures above I WAS JUST ABLE TO VERIFY ON ANOTHER SITE. THEY ARE CORRECT! FIRST TIME I EVER SAW THE NUMBERS FOR 2005 MUSTANG/AVANTI MODELS. WISH I COULD GET 2006. I UNDERSTAND THAT 2007 WERE JUST 21. SO..... THE AVERAGE BETWEEN 21 & 46 WOULD BE 33.

Perhaps 100 based on ther Mustang body / chassis.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Sandy B.

[Guest DRN]

Sandy B.: Remember, there are two types of Mustang based Avanti's: the '05's which were based on the '94-'04 Mustangs, and the '06-'07 Avanti's, which were based on the current '05-on Mustangs. There are significant visual and mechanical differences between the two.

On what site did you find corroboration with the info I found at howstuffworks.com?

[Sandy B.]

Not sure that I recall. Figures that I have, from several sites indicate the following:

2001 Firebird based = O

2002 Firebird based = 77

2003 Firebird based - 88

2004 Firebird based = 102

However, in another place I saw a figure of TOTAL Firebird of 267 units.

2005 Mustang Avanti = 46

2006 Mustang Avanti = 10

2007 Mustang Avanti = 21

Total = 77 ??

[Sandy B.]

Sandy B.: Remember, there are two types of Mustang based Avanti's: the '05's which were based on the '94-'04 Mustangs, and the '06-'07 Avanti's, which were based on the current '05-on Mustangs. There are significant visual and mechanical differences between the two.

On what site did you find corroboration with the info I found at howstuffworks.com?

I don't know. I searched & searched & cannot find it right now.