aardvark

Bob I never could run on emotions for a purchase. Financially it was never possible and IF I did that, I couldn't afford to be in this Hobby/ profession (however You view it). I have to approach a deal as having a 50% profit margin or the deal is dead... Why?...I know there will be some repairs and modifications needed IF I can't buy with a profit margin, I can't continue on buying the next one... You see. me selling off at a profit is paramount to me continuing. Current history is a 928 Porsche bought for $16k... a '63, R2 Avanti at $16k...a '02' Avanti for $19k. All are wonderful;l examples and are (as You call them) good drive, low mileage cars in near excellent condition. I have 2 other VW purchases as well. So at present a few things are up for sale to re-coup my losses as well as pump up the $$ stockpile. I'm far from wealthy and live on Soc Sec'y with a few side incomes..None of this would be possible if I went in to this venture with financial losses, a infatuation of a brand or needing multi $$$ restorations. These MUST profit or I'm financially dead in the water. For those of You in different financial states, Carry on. Generally it's folks who are not burdened with finances that are my sellers. MFG. We've been thru this before but my stance is that of a Business Model as well as a Hobbyist.. They can run synergistically.

Bob.. very well stated and sensical. I also agree with Your R2's values and assessment of how they are figured,,, due to condition. Whether we use a 1-10 scale or come at it from a different angle are similar in methodology. There are condition guidelines to follow whether some agree or not. The first thing needed excluded from that process is ''Emotion''. Some disagree wholeheartedly that the Transactions are Business Like. I hold strong to that fact. You can easily get hosed if walking into a deal with an emotional bent and a "Gotta have it!" attitude. Thanks Bob

Be Same!

MFG. No. It was Manufactured and sold as a Product. You / I can glamorize or Love the Product as we see fit but it is a conglomeration of parts Factory Assembled and then sold. I do Love me some HP and these Cars are quite a unique item.. That said, they are a Product. In my case a heavily desired Product. Just call em what they are,, then add Your own twist to it. I keep saying I'm done.... but keep getting challenged on my opinions.

Done... MFG... You can glamorize anything You want but a Car was produced... thus Product.

Skip.. I started the thread to invite opinions. It turned into a pissing match which is sad to see those in this forum degrade themselves while disrespecting others. I'll think hard before wasting my time entering opinions with low expectations of future childish crap.

Sheesh.. I edited out what I was going to say. It is always interesting what people will say to each other when not face to face, but instead on Internet. Civility gets lost.

I stated this thread as an opinion point, to hopefully list some common sense to help buy and sell our products. Last thing I expected is a pissing match on said issues. Sorry MFG... I said I was out but this needed said. Now I'm out.

Done at Your request, MFG

Doesn't have a supercharger...

Bob P. Congrats on new ownership. Your points are well taken and actually Your 63-4 R2 prices are much higher than I listed. I haven't kept up on the Market for this model but knew prices have been escalating over the 2+ years I've owned my '63' R2., automatic, white red/orange interior and as I claim a solid 7+ (Your 7 may be different). When I gave examples of the 3 groups of Avanti's I was trying to be a little conservative since I don't try and overemphasize the values, and mine is in that first group (as well as my '02' in the 3rd group)... I'm glad Your seeing (possible) #7 examples in the low to mid $40's .. It solidifies the value I have set on my own vehicle. ........ Off topic a little is the method of paying...I've kept about $100k available in cash at close reach. It's dwindled down some since I've bought 5 cars over the last 3 years. My reason for the cash is when flashing a bundle of $100's the seller sees me as serious and immediate. Also, I won't chance the deal passing me by waiting for a Banks decision. So... when I visit and agree on a deal, I have the title in hand the same hour.

Whereas I realize the initial question is near impossible to answer, there are some averages I'm seeing. I used a 1-10 range settling on a 7. to take a valuation from 3 categories.. 1)original 63-64....2)65-90ish....3) 01-07. Let me give this a ''w.a.g'' (wild a$$ed guess) I've based a #7 rating as a running moderate mileage car in very good condition with little need for paint or repairs. A car I can drive and enjoy.. So.... a 63-64 in $7 condition I see them selling in the $25-40k range.....A 65-90ish. generally $15-25k.....A. 01-07 generally in the $35-45k range. Remember I look for a 50a% profit margin (or a doubling in value)....., so my 63, R2 w/ 85k mi. I bought for $16K .... My 02, w/ 40k mi. I paid $19k. There needs to be some ballparking and generalization. Where I disagree with the crowd here is this is NOT like a a R/E purchase. There are no Banks approving a loan (or rarely), no board determining value.No appraisals being done. The item might be sold in a day or so, so a effort is made to jump on the purchase.. Real Estate is quite different... You are basically ''On Your Own'' when doing a Generalized Appraisal. Yes, there are indicators of values..Hemmings BAT and other sources and they are taken into account.. Also in R/E there are very few 50% off deals (I've. never seen any)..AND...Most transactions are cash not 30 year loans. So in my Barn. I've done well. Your mileage might vary. (editing was due to spelling errors)

Bac-at-cha

Well, in 4 pages of comments what has been said or learned? When I started this thread. I didn't realize it would have such tooth to it... but this is a sensitive and somewhat necessary discussion, as I see it. Values and those that could care less about values have been discussed.... Also those who Love their vehicles more than they control their spending on said vehicles. Others (like me) who see a profit in them.. We all approach these Vehicles a little different...... So be it. One thing I'm aware of is We all have a reality coming up in the future.. Someone will be selling our Estate. It will either be us prior to out passing '''or''' someone who inherits our stuff. I've made a list of what I have and placed an approximate value to all major items, but in the mean time I still try to buy / fix / sell as I go along. So that list will be update as things change (Values ...OR... Items). My Wife really enjoys the cars but has no clue or interest in them IF I pass first. My Son, the same scenario, . Neither of them have the knowledge or desire to try and keep my collection running, insured and driven on a regular basis. They will either sell off the stock pile or it will rot away.. I can say, I don't care because I'll be gone, but that to me is a little selfish to dump my interests on them... Your Mileage May Vary!

Footer. I'm not so concerned about the average age of an Avanti Collector. In the future I have to assume (like all very old collectibles) there will be a market for them based on rarity and condition.

Bob.. 2 points on Your info/ 1) A Hobby and a Job can be one in the same especially if You love what You do.. A Hobby can even be a 9-5 option if retired and dedicated to it. Also there is no reason to think a Hobby cannot show a profit, and be considered in a Business like Fashion. To not do so is throwing money away.. which is fine with me if the thrown cash is headed my direction by me buying at around 50% of said value.. And those deals are out there and offered by sellers. I don't have to lowball Sellers.. They lowball the items themselves. 2) Car values are as you say variable and somewhat dictated by the History of Sales. It's the only indictor we have. Sooo .....there needs to be a Honesty in valuation, but thats up to the Buyer to determine. And yes, the prices cannot be determined by being uninformed or blinded by a Love of something vs actual market value.

Ron... Sounds like Your buying them right and bringing them back.

Nelson... Agree it's usually a financial decision, and I'm seeing the values increase on the '63-4' models...(can't speak for the other models,(cept '01'-'07) since I don't follow them). A completed and very good car in that time range can bring $30-40k depending on condition and options (The R2 bringing more). These prices bring the Avanti into a sensible range to consider resto'ing if the subject isn't too far gone. So what if You took 2 ea. of the $3600 examples and made 1. Is that sensible? You'll likely still need to buy parts and then labor needs considered. Mine, I bought a fine example of a '63' R2. I paid $17k w/ shipping .. It needs some small things, but I consider it worth $35k. To me, this is a ''Keeper'' but there's room on the top if I ever decided to sell off. But others here are not interested in all of the math and spend due to their Love of the vehicle. I guess that's a personal choice but I can't do that. If I did, (as said in multiple) I couldn't afford to be a collector. But we ''Road On!''

thanks

What was the sales price?

First off...I would never mislead a buyer. Also during the purchase I never try to cheat or beat up the Seller on an offer. In fact on my '02', there was no negotiation and I paid the Sellers full price.. But yes, My Hobbies are Business transactions. The two must cross paths or I cannot afford to be into these cars.

Where I agree with You,.. in a lot of respects I just can't.

Yup... Ya can't cure.... Never mind.

I've said my peace.. There needs be a semblance of sanity in spending.

Well, it's good for me, no doubt, since I own one ... but for those involved?