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VtMike

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  4. R3 Timing Advance

    in 1963-64 Avanti

    Posted

    Yesterday I read a really good article on Bob Johnstone's site on R3 Avantis.  Here is the link:  http://www.studebaker-info.org/MAA/SIA1286/sia1286p30.html

    The article said that R3 Avantis had only mechanical advance for timing.  Is that correct?    

    Since I know nothing about this subject, I googled it and read that having mechanical advance only is OK for racing when acceleration from a standstill isn't that important, but that having vacuum advance along with mechanical would help from a standstill?

    In another article (Road & Track?), I remember that the magazine guys did pretty extensive testing on an R3 Avanti -  on both 1/2 & 1/4 mile tracks.  While they were impressed with the overall performance, they couldn't get the Avanti to launch strong.  I realize that one reason an R3 wouldn't launch like a Hemi is it's smaller cubes and the fact that the supercharger didn't really kick in until about 3000 rpm, but I am wondering if the mechanical advance only may also have contributed to that problem?

    My other question is:  Let's say I was building a Stude engine hoping for R3 power, and I wanted to modernize the timing, what would be the best way to go?

     

      

     

     

       

  5. Modified Avanti!

    in Avanti Trivia

    Posted

    I have read that Andy claimed he needed to shift at 8000 rpm to beat Hemis in a 1/2 mile race, so # 2 is my guess.  Would be very interested to hear more about the modifications that gave 1025 that kind of go-power.   

  7. R3 Item!

    in Avanti Trivia

    Posted

    My bet is that the A series didn't have the milder 276 cam.  They have been described as hand built racing engines, and their job was to produce a lot of power and promote the performance image at Bonneville and in early magazine road tests.  So there likely would have been much less concern over whether they had street manners that non-racers would expect.  Second, I think Jack Vines wrote recently that the Stude factory refused to use one of the cams in the factory R3s . . . maybe because it was too wild?  So that may have been related to the intro of the milder 276 cam?  Anyway, that's my wild guess.

  8. How to upgrade an R2?

    in 1963-64 Avanti

    Posted

    I believe I recall that the 288 (?) cam R3 was described by Bez as "wild."  But I thought the milder R3 cam (266?) option had, in your words, at least somewhat respectable street manners.  I think I recall the R3 road test back in the day indicating that the R3 was a comfortable car for normal driving.  But my memory is suspect and the road test guys may not have been too picky about driving comfort, so I would like to hear more on the issue of how uncomfortable an R2 would be to drive with bigger valves and the other mods I was thinking about.   

    By the way, I came across a very interesting commentary in another forum by someone going by "Dare-to-be-different," who said he had years of Stude drag racing experience, and, among other things, said that the R 1 & 2 cams performed better in the Stude engines because they were a much better match than the R3 cams.  He described increasing valve size as the biggest bang for the buck in terms of performance options.  I don't know who he is, but he had a lot of interesting things to say about what did and didn't work for him in Stude engines.

     

     

  10. How to upgrade an R2?

    in 1963-64 Avanti

    Posted

    For some time, I have been dreaming about getting an Avanti and upgrading its engine to an R3 clone.  Not to build a race car . . .  just looking for something that would knock my socks off once in awhile, but still be OK for normal driving. 

    But the lack of available R3 heads and/or expense of building such an engine may be an unrealistic pipe dream.

    So I am wondering how far I could get by upgrading an R2 without totally breaking the bank?  Bore to 299 or 304 cu in?  Port and polish the heads?  Increase intake valve size as much as those heads allow?   Heavy duty valve springs?  Rebuilding supercharger to R3 boost level?

    I understand from other threads that the intake manifold may be the choke point that would limit the effectiveness of other upgrades.  What is the best solution to that problem?

    Also, aside from looking cool as hell, does the R3 air box do anything for performance?

    Really appreciate any thoughts.

    Mike

     

     

     

     

     

  12. Tu-Tone Revisited!

    in Avanti Trivia

    Posted

    I thought I remembered a tu-tone Avanti on youtube.  Here it is.  No idea if it came from the factory this way, but it is black except for the orange roof and the raised part of the hood.  The video also claims it is an R3, but who knows about that?  Anyway, here is the link:  

     

  15. R3 Gears!

    in Avanti Trivia

    Posted

    Found something in an old Hot Rod Magazine road test that I found interesting . . .  it makes me think the R3s came from the factory with a milder and more streetable setup and the rough running may have been caused by owners tweaking their small engines to squeeze a little more out of them.  

    The last test car we used was the new R2 and we made no attempt to try it at the drags. We just drove it and enjoyed it. A few short bursts through the gears in remote locations proved that it had adequate power, as Studebaker claims. Even with the blower, the engine is very smooth, quiet and docile as a limousine in heavy traffic. Amazingly enough, we used the R3 version in our travels to and from the office and except for the objectionable gear ratio we had fitted for the drags, it too was a very smooth car for daily duties.

     

     

  16. R3 Gears!

    in Avanti Trivia

    Posted

    I love the idea of having the performance of an R3, but don't see how anyone would be comfortable with driving one on the street that runs (or doesn't run) like that Lark.  I can't believe that Studebaker allowed the R3s to leave the factory unless they were at least half-way comfortable for street driving.  In the Youtube videos of running R3 Avantis I have been able to fine, they will idling but faster than would be normal.  Is that because they won't keep running at a lower idling RPM or run so rough that it must be avoided?

    Sad to say, but, if the tradeoff for the performance is that an R3 inevitably acts like that Lark, I may have to stop dreaming about having an R3 clone one day.  

    I would love to hear from someone who has ridden in an R3 Stude of some kind, and could tell me what it is really like. 

  17. Two versions of the R3 Avanti engine???

    in 1963-64 Avanti

    Posted

    Today I was surfing around the 'net and came across an article from the Pressreader dated July 19, 2018.  It can be found here:  https://www.pressreader.com/australia/unique-cars/20180719/282737702601107

    The thing that caught my attention was that the writer claimed the R3 engine was available in two versions, and the second one had two 4 bbl carbs inside the Air Box and something like 430 hp.

    I know I am new 'round here but I never heard of this alleged dual carb version of the R3.  Is this guy telling the truth?

    While I am asking questions, I will ask another one:

    I read somewhere that, when Andy Granetelli (sp?) built the R3 that Hot Rod magazine tested back in the early days, he didn't build it the way factory R3s were built.  He did increase the engine from 289 to 299 cubic inches, but he did that by stroking the engine rather than boring it out.  The suggestion in the article was that a stroked 289 would have more torque than one that was bored out, and Andy wanted Hot Rod to test an R3 that would perform as well as possible in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile tests.   The article also suggested that such shenanigans weren't atypical of the time, and said GM provided Hot Rod with a 421 powered GTO rather than the factory 389.  Sure enough, the Hot Rod mag GTO outperformed any stock GTO every built.

    So, anyway, I was wondering whether stroking a 289 to 299 was something that anyone else has done, and whether that is a practical approach to gaining more performance?

    Mike

  19. More Rookie Questions

    in 1963-64 Avanti

    Posted

    Jack -  

    Thanks for the quick, no nonsense answer.  I appreciate that.  Lesson learned.

    What would you recommend to upgrade an R1 engine?  If it needs to be a supercharger, is there a modern one that would do the job and be more reliable?

    Thanks for your patience, steep learning curve here . . .

    Mike 

      

     

  20. More Rookie Questions

    in 1963-64 Avanti

    Posted

    It looks like most R2s cost more than I want to pay, so now I am thinking more of getting a nice R1 driver 4 speed with A/C.   

    But I would still like to have R2 performance.  

    I was just looking at prior threads re: converting an R1 into a R2.  Someone warned that adding a Paxton supercharger wouldn't be worth it because of the added upkeep, maintenance, etc.

    Question:  Could you upgrade the R1 engine to R2 level performance without the Paxton supercharger, but still keep it mild enough to be streetable?

    Maybe fuel injection? Maybe roller cams?  Maybe a modern turbo that would be more reliable?

    I am sure this is not original thinking.  Are there R1s out there where this approach has been taken?

    Mike

     

     

     

     

     

     

  25. Beginner Questions

    in 1963-64 Avanti

    Posted

    Fred -

    Still interested and would love to see pictures and learn your asking price.

    I live in Vermont but am coming to visit family in Maryland the 1st week of October.  I may be able to come and take a look at the Avanti while I am down there.

    Thanks,

    Mike

     

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