Geoff
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Posts posted by Geoff
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Yup. In a phone call to my father, Andy G. confirmed a stroke increase from 3 5/8" to 3 3/4" in engine RS1021, and that it was the only stroked R3.
Standard 289 --> 299 practice was to use 0.060" in overbore.
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I vote false. Egbert being a private pilot was the inspiration for the switches (and the red backlit gauges) but he wasn't the one who implemented those design cues.
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The Avanti Bonneville R5 engine was rated at approximately, 4) 638 [gross] horsepower.
The body was pushing against 200 MPH while the tachometer was indicating the wheels were exceeding 200 MPH. This achievement attained on wet salt with a gently massaged stock body and (638 gross / ~575 net / ~480 wheel) horsepower. I am impressed with what the car did at that time.
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Love the two road raced Avantis. Fun little side note, the factory Porsche team was worried about the Avanti GTO. I wish it would've not had the electrical gremlins, it could have won.
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My wild shot guess is -15%.
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I got out and shot a couple of videos, one of the gauges and the other of the engine bay.
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It was done enough to trailer to the Warwick meet. We tried to drive it afterward to a meet at York beach, Maine, and found the front suspension to be not quite right (possibly a bent kingpin). We'll get back on the car as soon as the snow melts but we have other items on the to-do list. It'd be amazing to drive 1025 to the South Bend meet (in May? Really?) but that's early; it might get trailered.
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Excuse me while I pick up my lower jaw from the floor. The Avanti GT is one of only two Avantis that were built to perform in my favorite type of auto racing, carving up road courses.
Now that I've helped get 63R-1025 back up to operational status, it's my goal to start with a basket-case '84 or '85 (pretty much just an empty shell) and build a street legal homage to the 1985.5 GT, down to the fender flares and multi-link IRS. I hope to see the car at South Bend next year; I'd love to see / photograph it up close and thorough if permitted.
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I recall a few more 'mandates' from RL.
http://www.theavanti.net/design.html and
http://www.theavanti.net/birth_window.html (third paragraph).
And remember, "Above all, think aerodynamics."
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I'm noticing something else on the red car, it's got a protrusion on the lower half of its rear valance. Currently it very much resembles a diffuser; if it were mounted lower and was equipped with strakes I'd say it definitely was a diffuser. I also see the protrusion stops short of the rear track width, as in for pressure alleviation behind the rear wheels.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/downforce-sorcery/
I reflect upon the aerodynamics thread, and maintain what I wrote. There are many styling elements learned in recent times which could be amended to cars without them. Bonneville racers would definitely benefit from an air extracting hood design and A-pillar air guides (both cues borrowed from Cobra Daytona Coupe). At that point, what's stopping them? The rule book for their respective classes. -
Okay, it's been long enough. False, 1025 has always been an automatic.
From that article-"All told, we spent time behind the wheels of three Avantis while gathering information for this report. Our first car was a production R2 with optional four-speed transmission. Next was a Studebaker Engineering prototype R3 with automatic transmission. The last car, and the one which we put the most mileage on (over 1000 miles) was a late production R2 with automatic."
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If anybody is "hanging on a cliff" the complete answer is contained in the 63R-1025 thread, also in this trivia section.
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False, but I'll let mfg list the reasoning.
Spoiler, I'll be working on 1025 in New England again in a few weeks, the goal being its attendance at the Warwick meet. -
I have a handful of suggestions
Spin Tech mufflers:
Sportsman Street 3000 (loud for the street), 3000XL (less loud), & 3000XLP (quieter than less loud).Those listed above are rectangular box shaped. Spin Tech also makes oval and low profile rectangular box mufflers to fit a variety of space requirements.
http://www.spintechmufflers.com/ (Top left. Mufflers -> Street Mufflers)
And one from Dynomax
Dynomax VT
The VT stands for valve technology. These use a tuned valve to nullify the resonance [drone] in low RPM driving. The valve swings out of the way when you plant the loud pedal.
http://www.dynomax.com/mufflers/dynomax-vt-mufflers (One comparison video)
http://www.jegs.com/p/Dynomax/Dynomax-VT-Mufflers/1316158/10002/-1 (One video same as dynomax page, plus three more videos)The valve is under a lifetime warranty.
Dynomax gives a 90 day free trial offer. If you are not completely happy, send them back.
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Last hurrah-
Raymond Loewy had more than just fleeting knowledge of aerodynamic design:
"Loewy emphasized … accent wedge-shape … pinch waistline, as le Mans-type racing cars … above all, think aerodynamics."
Also, we may "thank" Egbert for changing the windshield rake; the car was designed to have more slope. Even so, apply some Cobra Daytona Coupe A-pillar air deflectors to prevent the windshield from throwing off a large wake; big problem becomes little problem.
From http://www.theavanti.net/design.html and http://www.theavanti.net/birth_window.html
I concede that applying what had been learned aerodynamically to cars was still in its toddler years, though some knowledge had been gained. German aerodynamicist Wunibald Kamm discovered how to reduce automotive drag in the 1930s and due to his research we have the Kammback / Kamm tail / K-tail. So while it's possible Loewy had zip training in aerodynamics, it's likely he was astute, paid attention to the world around him, and learned without being in a classroom.Pertaining to the notion of adding aerodynamic enhancements to a car after the fact:
1969 Dodge Charger R/T vs. 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona. The R/T has a drag coefficient of 0.51*. After body modifications, the Daytona model achieves 0.33* (this allpar.com story lists 0.28). By adding a nose cone, placing air extractors above the wheel wells, and flush mounting the back light, Charger's Cd drops 0.18 points. If not for the addition of its wing the figure would be better. There's also an intermediary Charger to these two, the Charger 500. That car pushed the R/T's grille forward and flush mounted its back light. I don't have an official number here, I guesstimate it to be between 0.47 and 0.43. By manipulating air where we want it to go and (even more important) preventing air from bunching up and swirling, improves cars without these design elements.
(* numbers pulled from a racing simulator's game disc information, Forza Motorsport 4.)
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Oh that's great news. Maybe someone out there has the rear flares? Before whatever is found gets installed, somebody should use them to make molds, in case anyone else happens to want those fender flares.
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… When talking to someone that knew a lot more than me about how engines develop power, perhaps Jim Pepper, it was stated that eventually it didn't matter how much pressure was available, other delivery dynamics would limit the useful amount, however; I doubt that those dynamics were known back then.
I tinkered around in Desktop Dyno software, oh four years ago anyway, trying to emulate an R3 Studebaker engine. What I found was increasing supercharger pressure from 8 PSI to 14 PSI didn't have an appreciable effect on the power numbers. That told me there was already enough boost "knocking on the doors" to be let in. Doors? Valves! Ah, I will check there. When I increased the Studebaker 1.875" intake valve to 2.02" (I figured the 1.625" exhaust valve was fine) WOW! That did it! 8 pounds of boost with larger valves netted better results than 14 pounds of boost with 1.875" valves. We know, as large as the Studebaker block is externally, room internally is at a premium (like the dream of a 4" bore). It's possible the hang-up in valve size was known then but what could they have done?
It was at the national meet this summer, in our talks with Jim Pepper; he mentioned the valves as a choke point and that jogged my memory.
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This might be a question for Mike Baker and crew but I'll throw it here anyhow.
My heart lies with road racing, and only two Avantis ever fulfilled that category: the Mid-Ohio Avanti GT, and the Dillon built tube frame Avanti GTO made for the 24 hours of Daytona. I like the Avanti GT because it is a production based car and I have it in my plans to build a Blake car paying homage to it.
How would I go about recreating the flared fenders and fascia / air dam? Or for that matter, how would people who own a 20th anniversary edition recreate their air dam, should their factory one become damaged and no longer usable?We need supersize blocks of that dental impression stuff. Just press it up against a shape and that shape lives forever. Then we could slather some PVA in there and use the impression blocks as molds.
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In fact, I know that cam has been reground, at least in terms of duration. There is plenty of valve overlap present on that car, that I haven't heard about in other factory cars. There's enough overlap that it hurts its fuel economy. 1025 is in "afterburner" mode all the time, as the valve overlap dumps raw fuel out the back end. The Paxton crew didn't care, gasoline was like a dime a gallon, just dump that sh*t, blow it on through with the blower pressure. RS1021 is more suited as a race engine than as a daily driver. What's a typical R3's MPG? I bet they're still better than 1025.
So with this information, let's add it back to the conversation about the valve springs. They were run hard and they were asked to do work beyond what other Studebaker R3 valve springs did. Yeah, I think by the 1990s their metal would be a tad softer than in their youth, blasting through the half-mile with Andy, beating on Hemis, churning out 8,000 RPM.
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The car was run hard in its early days. That engine frequently saw bursts to 7k (Hot Rod Magazine), 8k (Andy Granatelli), and wherever the "Th" of "Thousand RPM" falls on the tachometer face (Ron and Doug Crall). 1- They're springs from the 1960s. 2- They're worn from being over-worked. 3- The cam in RS1021 may very well have been reground for more lift and/or duration.
Andy had triple springs in that thing to make sure the valves operated as he needed them to, and they did. When I was daily driving the car from 1995 - 1997, that's when I'd experience valve float on those same, original, Paxton & Studebaker installed valve springs.
Like I said, if RS1021 were to see those engine speeds again, it would need a good refreshing.
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You wouldn't attribute old metallurgy to an engine failure, if say RS1021 were run as Hot Rod Magazine ran her and stretched it to 7000 RPM? -http://theavanti.net/63_stepforward.html (Read as, magazine test drivers were more conservative than Andy G. was to the ol' girl).
When I was driving it in the middle and later '90s, the engine would float the valves at speeds greater than 5000 RPM. If it were ever to see 7k (or Andy's 8k) RPM operation again, at the very least it'd require new valve springs; a more thorough overhaul would be preferred. [Who's got access to jumping strings of string theory and/or time travel?]
Maybe we need to drop the oil pan and get some nice HD video documenting the crank and rods?
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Watch about 8 seconds of this video, from this point forward:
https://youtu.be/rAYrKW1vxjc?t=1m17s-Front window rolled down
-Trunk access panel removed
-Reverse light pieces removed
It looks like a pressure relieving solution if I've ever seen one.
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I always giggle to myself when thinking about the R5 Avanti doing a rolling burnout at 190+ MPH.
Driven by Joe and Andy Granatelli, the Due Cento reached speeds well over 200 mph according to the tach, but was not getting traction due to the wet salt and the best official run was 196.58 mph.
The two-way average equaled 196.58 MPH, and the tachometer indicated the car was over 200, but it doesn't take much to lower two trips by 3.42 MPH.
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A fellow named Steve Clay owned a portable dynamometer on the premises and was charging to have your car rear-wheel "dyno'd" if you wanted...but he was so taken with The R3 Plain Brown Wrapper that he asked us to bring it back and he would "dyno" it for free! The whole procedure and readout are more complicated than it would appear.
The R3 really strained at the Plain Brown Wrapper's tethers [to the dyno] and produced 365.1 HP MEASURED AT THE REAR WHEELS with a fully "loaded" drive-train at 5830 RPM! Mind you, this is for an engine that Studebaker rated at 335 HP @5300 RPM on the test stand.Quote pulled from this site, http://www.racingstudebakers.com/team_one.htm
This is talking about Plain Brown Wrapper's R3 in "Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag" trim, so not Myers' refreshed R3 but one nonetheless.
365.1 HP through the wheels require we add 16% (really more if we're talking about an automatic transmission not a manual, and old technology not new) so that puts us at 434.6 net horsepower. Next, we can add another 10% resulting in at least 482.9 gross horsepower at 5830 RPM.
I'm curious why this peak power figure occurs below 6000 RPM? R3s should be good to about 6800 RPM, yes? I wonder if the person on the throttle was holding back?
Super or Not?
in Avanti Trivia
Posted
I'll just post a wild shot guess of true!