MikeValent
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Posts posted by MikeValent
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Nostalgic has the 3-speed off-low-medium-high switch, if you're talking about the fan speed switch (lower of the 2 in-console switches). My '83 when I bought it had an "infinite adjustment" switch (off-high-then progressively lower down to almost no fan speed).
But both of these switches have three lugs - power in, power out to fan, power out to thermostat (the upper console switch).
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No, it's tempting but as the red one illustrates, the Avanti design needs the chrome. Painted looks no worse than the Blake bumpers and headlight wells, but rechroming would look much better. Door handles/locks - I think the original design did look a little better, but not enough to worry about it.
Too bad I can't convince myself that paint would look okay since I'm facing having to get my front bumper rechromed, but it doesn't.
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You might get an extra 2mpg in city driving, but since most of the time you'll be idling, accelerating or decelerating, there's not much mileage influence a transmission swap can have for a carbureted v-8 engine in a 3,500 pound car.
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I recently ordered the AOAI CD of all the Avanti newsletter/magazine issues. Well worth the price. A couple of really good "how to" illustrated articles written by owners who had done the dash removal: Nils Straaaiveit article on pages 38 and 39 of issue 82 - Fall/Winter 1992, and Nick Berger's article on pages 8-12 of issue 92 - Summer 1995. Berger also had photos of how Just Dashes made his new dashboard.
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What seems to be the problem with the moonroof? Does the switch work and its motor run? Is it leaking, is ity coming loose from the top at the rear of the moonroof opening? There's a lot of info on the "skytop" brand moonroof (which is what should be in your Avanti II) on Bob Johnstone's website. I think that's what Gunslinger referred you to. That site has more Avanti info than you can believe.
There's a pretty good collectiion of very experienced owners (including Skytop's former owner) on the Yahoo Avanti discussion board (though I can't understand why they're there instead of here).
Don't waste your time trying to get an owners manual. My '83 came with one and it has nothing of any real value in it.
I have heard that Nostalgic Motors has "rough-cut veneers.
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When the chrome vertical rear bumper pieces were used, the "square" plastic or rubber pieces were not used on the rear bumper. That may be your problem.
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According to one of the "designers' memoirs" articles in Avanti Mag, wheel flares were in the original design until Loewy himself ruled them out for complicating the car's "clean lines". I have to agree as everywhere I've seen flares, they were an attempt to cover for inadequate design. On the pictureded Avanti they draw attention to the outside of the tires being out too wide for the car's design.
Then there's the bisected rear bumper. Like the passenger-side gunsight some PO put on my Avanti, it doesn't kill the car's impact but mildly diminishes it. IMO, there's not much if any owner improvement that can be made in the Avanti's looks. Even with Tom Kellogg "designing" the two-seater Avanti conversion some years back, that car's proportions looked "off" compared to the normal Avanti - at least in the pictures I've seen.
People modifying the GM or Ford cars of that era had it much easier since the designs they worked with had been so compromised by company policies that they looked either dull enough that most any mod would improve their looks or a few looked just plain grotesque. The '63 Vette being a good example of the latter. In 1962 I remember thinking that the E-type looked breathtakingly beautiful, the Avanti maybe beautiful, maybe something else, but even stronger than the Jag in its visual impact, and the '63 Vette as a disappointment, a completely blown opportunity by GM's styling department.
Again, just my opinion as an owner and a longtime Avanti fan. But I do think that a talented, experienced industrial designer would agree that it would be devilishly difficult to successfully modify any significant part of a good design. (and in an outstanding design, every part is significant)
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I have an '83 with the Nardi wheel. Nice enough looking steering wheel, spokes at the nine o'clock, three o'clock and six o'clock positions, but I'd love to find a similar design that has two spokes in the (roughly) eight o'clock and four o'clock positions like the original Studebaker wheel did. With the two-spoke wheel, the driver's vision of the instrument panel was almost always completely unobstructed.
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And I could even nitpick the E-Type one one thing - the windshield, like the Avanti's later, was maybe too vertical for the design's sleekness.
Far as the Avanti's seats are concerned, I loved the ones on my '64. They were the "thin" design originals - apparently my car was assembled slightly before the factory went to the "thickback" seats in the final batch of '64 models. I don't think either the (Avanti II) stock highback seats or the Recaros look as good as either of the Studebaker seat designs but of course the highback/headrest nonsense was a mandated change.
I've always looked at the Avanti as Egbert's car (what a name for the poor man to have been saddled with!) instead of a "real" Studebaker.
GAWen, don't mourn not having a Studebaker Avanti. Even in 1962-63 a lot of people thought it would have been a better car had it had the Chevy 283 in it. Studebaker had earned their "Steadybreaker" nickname by then. I'm quite happy with RQB3371 Chevy drivetrain, particularly since a PO added a Paxton SN2000 blower to give my 305 some decent pickup and passing power.
You know, most of the time it's not great fun being a turkey-necked old geezer, but age becomes enjoyable in discussions like this one. Mentally it takes me back to "when it all happened".
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Gunslinger, I should have prefaced my remarks by noting that I know the circumstances that led to some of the design's peculiarities. Studebaker, for all intents and purposes, had all but disappeared by the time they hired Egbert. What I'm suggesting is that if there's a new design (or interpretation of the Loewy design) rather than an exact copy body, that there are areas that can be improved without losing the Avanti's original design impact. That impact for some of us (OF's now, young then) was as great as that of Jaguar's XKE had been when it had been introduced shortly before.
But maybe any new Avanti design would turn out like the newer Jag coupe - a beautiful car, yes, but not with the E-type's impact.
There are a number of "small" elements in the Avanti design that can blunt the impact of a more modern interpretation. The front marker light placement is one. The "gunsight" - windshield bottom - top of instrument panel continuity is another. Bumper regs and "safety" requirements will also have their effects.
I have perhaps an unusual perspective. As a 21 year old college student with just enough inherited money to get myself in trouble, I traded a '62 TR-4 (now *that* was a narrow car) and $3,000 cash to custom-order a 1963 Avanti. I expected to get a '63 model, but by the time South Bend actually produced the car it was turned out as a '64.
I didn't expect a grill, and at first didn't like it. I expected round headlights, and at first did not like the "square" ones. But within a week, I realized that my car looked a lot better with those two changes. The "square" light covers match the car's design better, and after a week of living with the grill, I realized that the car looked unfinished without something to keep the eye from being drawn to the radiator opening.
I've had my '83 for almost a year now; what about it do I like better? Well, it's 20 years newer than my old '64, wherever that may be now. I do appreciate not having the rake of the '64. Most people at that time considered that to be a negative design factor and I agreed with them. It looked like, and apparently was, a mistake. Its interior looks nowhere near as good as my '64's, but that's mainly the thick, high-back squarish Recaros that don't fit the original Avanti design, and the lack of the keystone emblems which did help tie the interior together. Safety regs killed the low-back front seats that looked so good on those 60's cars, and safety regs would really bulk up interior fixtures of a "new" Avanti design.
Taken in good humor, this could end up as an interesting discussion of what we as individuals, see as attractive/unattractive in each of the Avanti models.
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"Styled as the original"? Do you mean duplicating the body and interior of the 1963 or 64 models, or trying to achieve a close "modern" take on the original look? Something closer in appearance to the original than the 1984 or later Avantis?
Jim Bunting and Tom Kellogg collaborated in producing the late 90's AVX, so named because they didn't hold the rights to the Avanti name. I don't know if the then-dormant Avanti company gave them any legal grief over their pitching it as a successor to the Avanti.
I owned a 1964 Avanti new and today own a 1983 model. For styling, this is my take on the designs' strengths and weaknesses:
First time I saw the car back in '63 I thought it looked too narrow for its length. It still is, plus the original is quite a long car by today's standards. Some of that could be solved by shortening the car a little, using a frame which would allow the seating floor to be sunk inside the frame a couple of inches and lowering the roofline by the same amount.
The steel bumper design is critical. The blade bumpers are useless as bumpers, of course, but their chrome provides vital visual direction in front and rear views of the car. None of the 84-on cars look nearly as good with their composite bumpers. And the front directionals *must* stay on the front fender extensions - otherwise the extensions will just look clumsy as they do in the newer Avantis.
The windshield might look fine with some more rake, but part of the Avanti "feel" comes from having the hood visually closer to the driver than on most modern cars.
First time I saw the Avanti, I thought the designers had done a great job of making the car look graceful from all angles - except the direct rear view. The rear view still looks awkward to me. It's not nearly as bad as many fastbacks of the 60's, but could be improved. Better width-height ratio, maybe?
The car, if redesigned, should be a Hardtop instead of a coupe. It should have been a hardtop design from the beginning. It's "roll bar" is just a roof brace which should be eliminatable by proper design. (and of course a hardtop coupe design would be more compatible with the convertible version)
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I got tired of searching for lenses, so cut pieces out of a piece of "Darice 10 Mesh #33030 Clear" translucent plastic mesh material that I found in a Joann Fabrics store. It's a tight plastic mesh that I think is used as a backing material in some kinds of sewing or knitting.
I cut each piece to fit right inside the light fixture's inside rim, used a very small bead of contact cement to hold the edges, and it works pretty well. You normally don't see the lense on the dash's underside and (unless you're very short) you're not normally going to be looking directly at the rear courtesy lights. If you don't look really closely, they look enough like you'd expect "stock" lenses to look. And they effectively remove that "bare bulb" glare.
Since it is a mesh it should let more air in around the bulb to help dissipate its heat. The stock bulbs are #211-2 12v. I substituted #212-2 13.5v bulbs which feel less hot and which project a warmer (yellower?) light. I also tried #578 bulbs which gave the same white light as the #211-2 but may be a bit less hot.
For whatever it may be worth, I also got tired enough of the mismatched a/c temp and fan knobs in my 83 and solved that by ordering from Vintage Air:
#20558-VUP blower switch label (off-lo-med-hi)
#20571-VUP Rotary thermostat label
#49457-VUI black plastic knobs (2 of them)
The knobs and labels look good, though I probably should have bought their #49457-VUI aluminum knobs.
I wanted some cold air on the door side of each front seat, so I installed one of their 49050-VUL center louvers under the dash on each side. On the passenger side, that involved drilling new mounting holes for the computer bracket, moving it an inch and a quarter toward the center console. The a/c outlet then went immediately outboard of the computer box. On the driver's side, I mounted the outlet just to the left of the steering column. For cold air supply, I ran 2 1/2" hose to the openings in the console sides. Just stuffed the hose into the openings,
It's not perfect but it's a lot better than stock. And the outlet pieces are hardly noticeable, as the passenger side one just looks to be an extension of the computer box and the driver's side one is visually almost hidden behind the steering wheel. If anyone wants to try this, let me know as there are a couple of other small mods you'll need to make it work right.
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Your 82 should have the same molded plastic ww reservoir that my 83 has. Nostalgic Motors sells a replacement. I can't remember if I had to get under the dash to reach the hold-down screws for it. At any rate, I installed it without difficulty.
I think SI sells a "direct replacement" AM-FM-Cassette "Avanti" labeled radio. It's pretty pricey though. If you do replace your radio with a modern one, it is not necessary to take the dash off to cut the hole to fit.
My a/c compressor is the big, long thing so yours probably is the A6 unit. (fortunately, mine works okay if not great) I've had no problems with my tach, brake cylinder or overflow tank, so can't be of any help there. Good luck!
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Title describes the problem. Are these parts just plain steel, chromed? Or are they some cheap form of stainless?
From an Avanti mag about five years old I see that George Dimitsas advertised "new reproduction" center front bumpers made of 14 ga stainless. Anyone have any idea whether he might still have them or what they might cost?
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In the Avanti electrical schematic drawings available on Bob Johnstone's website, there's an AC unit from 1976 shown on page 19A, and a Dana unit from 1981 shown on page 19B. I didn't print out 19A since my Avanti has the Dana unit, so I can't promise that it'll be of help to your but it's worth a try.
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I bought an 83 this May. It had white in the instrument panel, red in the console and in the overhead switches. Follow Gunslingers advice. After I wasted time and a little money trying to get a satisfactory result from painting the bulbs, I took his advice and bought the covers from Pep Boys. They do work just fine.
And he's right that - unless you have really tiny hands - you want to spend as little time as possible feel-locating the bulbs, pulling them out and down far enough to change bulbs, then replacing them in their sockets.
I'll give you a tip on that. The bulbs to the right of the steering wheel are easier to reach through the "change tray" (what was originally a speaker enclosure on top of the dash). To get to those on the left, I unscrewed the brushed aluminum dash terminator plate by the drivers door. Under that is unfinished fiberglass. I cut the hole there enough larger that I can get my hand in there to change bulbs on that side. Just be careful not to cut away the areas where the three little screws hold the plate on.
Easy to read the instruments? Back in 1963-64 I owned a 64 Avanti. Found the instruments very easy to read. I don't find them as easy to read in my new-to-me 83. On the other hand, I was 22 then and am 66 now. That may explain the difference.
For you guys with the white dash lights: does your tach light up as brightly as the rest of your instruments? With red lights, mine looks considerably dimmer than the speedometer? I can't remember if that was the case with the white lighting.
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Rob - Bob Johnstone's website has electrical block circuit diagrams that help. I took some time and printed them all out to keep on hand. Diagram 26 shows the 1984 fuse block. My 83 fuse block is the same as the 84 and I'll bet yours is also. The headlights-park lights-tail lights and instrument lights are all on one 20 amp fuse. Someone (also from Florida, I believe) recommended replacing that with a 25 amp fuse.
A prior owner replaced that fuse in mine with a 30 amp circuit breaker. I've had only one malfunction and it behaved like yours. Headlights and instrument lights went out, then came back after a couple of minutes, then repeated. But this happened only once and it happened when one of the transmission fluid cooling hoses split right up by the radiator and was blowing fluid mist all over the engine compartment.
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I bought an 83 about the same time you bought yours. Mine had a nonworking cheapo Blaupunkt "Denver" AM-FM-Cassette player. Mine has what was supposed to be an automatic antenna mounted in the usual drivers side rear fender location. The extension-retraction isn't working but for now I'm just leaving it extended.
You might want to see if you can borrow an antenna to see if that might be the problem. Shouldn't be too difficult to temporarily clamp it onto the car (rear bumper maybe?)
On mine, I removed the old radio through the "change tray" opening, installing the new one the same way. That's what used to be the dash speaker opening. I bought a Jensen CD6112, a pretty simple CD receiver. These radios apparently come in standard sizes - I looked at several others which had the exact same dimensions.
Instructions called for a 183mm by 52mm dash opening. The Avanti's radio mounting depression isn't quite big enough for that plus the new radio's faceplate trim ring. What I did was cut the dash opening to allow the faceplate to extend maybe 1/8" and then cut (and filed) the aluminum original radio front trim piece to "frame" the new radio. I don't have the ability to take the radio's faceplate off, but for a $70 unit that's a "so what?"
You don't have to remove the dash. It's pretty thin fiberglass, not that hard to cut (I'd feared it might be stamped steel under the padding). I didn't do a perfect cut, but the aluminum plate covered the minor irregularities. Just be aware that nothing will mask any mistakes on the aluminum plate cut. A good installer might have done a slightly better install, but I'm quite pleased with the result.
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If you do find a solution, please let us know here. I have an 83 with the same problem.
Johnstone's web page says that the courtesy light lenses were used in Chrysler Cordobas and New Yorkers, I think late 70's and early 80's. He didn't note any difference in courtesy lamp or lens design in the older/newer Avantis though.
Those lights certainly are bright. I wonder if we can find a lower wattage in the same style.
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I certainly appreciate the tip. Found enough of the Pilot red sleeves at two different Pep Boys and they sure do work better than painting the bulbs. And you're right, the illumination looks a lot "cleaner" than it did with painted bulbs.
Does anyone know whether Avanti's stock tach has two bulbs, or just one? The speedo has a bulb down low, just right of center, I think, plus another bulb up high just left of center. I can't seem to find an upper bulb in the back of the tach - almost can't reach that area from under the dash or by putting my arm in through the dash hole above the radio. With only one (working) bulb, the tach looks considerably dimmer than does the speedo.
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Not the problem i'd thought it would be. I got new tires at a Firestone/Bridgestone store in Pompano and they had no problem doing the alignment. Though their tire fit computer program had no listing for an Avanti, their alignment program printed out specs for aligning a 1965-1985 Avanti with radial tires. Whether caused by alignment or wear pattern on the tires, the right-pull is now gone too.
Have to keep working to get the instrument lights painted with a red that'll last more than a week. Then there's the seeming conflict between the ammeter and voltmeter. With headlights and/or the air conditioner on, the voltmeter shows 11 to 11 1/2 volts, but the ammeter always shows at least a few amps of charging.
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I own an 83 Avanti II - still the original Studebaker frame and suspension, I think. For you owners who live in Broward County, FL (or south Palm Beach County), who do you use for wheel alignment? The tech who handles my 95 Jeep is afraid to touch the Avanti. He did go far enough to be able to tell me that he didn't see any slop or worn-out parts in the steering gear.
The car has developed a fairly strong pull to the right. As I read some posts indicating that the nut in the control valve assembly adjusts power steering bias, I've tried adjusting that, but it's had no effect except maybe on steering sensitivity. Anyone have any advice there?
Had to replace the oil pressure sending unit. Took the old one to a chevy dealer's parts department, got looked at as though I might be trying to hand him a rock from Mars. No, Chevy didn't use anything like that in 82 or 83. Ended up using a sender from a marine engine, 5.0 or 5.7. I can see it's going to be fun dealing with "routine" parts and service needs
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I've had my 83 Avanti for two months now. As the car's white on white with NO window tinting at all, it doesn't look that dramatic to me. But I can't park it anywhere without drawing compliments - and that's consistent through all the male age groups from supermarket bagboys to retirees older than myself. Only one - a middle aged guy from Indiana - really knew what the car was, but most haven't seemed to care that much what it may be. They express delight in seeing it, then walk away happy. This thing triggers a "Wow" factor in people that I couldn't have imagined.
Maybe that's why I spent 42 years not being able to shed the notion that "One of these days I'm going to buy another Avanti."
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Tom, I'm old enough to remember that horsepower ratings were drastically revised between the build dates of those two cars. The R-1 hp was measured at the flywheel of an engine which had none of its accessories attached. The 83 cars' power is measured at the rear (drive) wheels. I do remember driving an R-1 in 1963 before committing to ordering the 1964 R-2. My brother's 62 Impala SS (300hp 327 w 4-speed manual) blew it right off the road.
For my use, any modern GMPP 5.7 would make the blower unneeded, but it'll be interesting to see what kind of performance I can get with the 5.0 and Paxton. If equivalent to the old R-2, that'll be fine.
I'm noticing that the early Avanti's rake now seems to be considered desirable. In 1963 it wasn't. I think most of us considered it as either a slight design mistake or a "so-what" effect. Of course we were just coming off a period of lowered rear ends, fender skirts and other means of minimizing the visual effects of the rear tires.
Dash replacement
in Avanti Pub
Posted
No index, Charlie. But I think one of the chapters has compiled (independently of this CD) an index of the tech articles. I'm enjoying scanning all the issues and printing out the material that I think will be of use to me down the road.