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uh oh, sat/pepper vs solid at 1064


tsterkel
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first a quote

"If your VIN is lower than 4892 it's a salt and pepper and after is all black.

ErnieR"

Geek is 1064 R2 Manual. I have looked at the carpets many times. They "look" original, and are all black.

1. Did I make a bad assumption?

2. what would be the "salt" color, given the interior is Elk/Fawn, exterior Metallic Maroon.

thanks!

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There are several vendors where you can get reproduction black carpeting, so it could definitely look original. The salt and pepper style is very difficult to find or even reproduce.

After all these years, and considering the water leak issues Avanti's had, plus normal wear and tear, I don't believe it's unreasonable to assume most surviving Avanti's in any kind of decent condition have had their carpeting replaced at least once.

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There are several vendors where you can get reproduction black carpeting, so it could definitely look original. The salt and pepper style is very difficult to find or even reproduce.

After all these years, and considering the water leak issues Avanti's had, plus normal wear and tear, I don't believe it's unreasonable to assume most surviving Avanti's in any kind of decent condition have had their carpeting replaced at least once.

Thanks,

but does anyone KNOW what the original was. black for Salt and Pepper, and if S/P, what color was the Salt?

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Ernier gave that information in reply to a question I posed here about carpet suppliers.

Since then, I've been wondering about it. He may be correct...but I want a second/third/fourth opinion before I spend big bucks. :)

I've asked J Myer at the AOAI about it. If he doesn't know, perhaps he can point us in the right direction (like a show judge) for confirmation.

In the meantime, I asked Phantom and they do thave fawn & black and red & black SP carpet sets for about $550.00. I also asked them about what was stock..

Edited by J Boyle
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I would jump over to the SDC Forum and post this question. At $550 a set I'd want to be sure also.

ErnieR

Ernier gave that information in reply to a question I posed here about carpet suppliers.

Since then, I've been wondering about it. He may be correct...but I want a second/third/fourth opinion before I spend big bucks. :)

I've asked J Myer at the AOAI about it. If he doesn't know, perhaps he can point us in the right direction (like a show judge) for confirmation.

In the meantime, I asked Phantom and they do thave fawn & black and red & black SP carpet sets for about $550.00. I also asked them about what was stock..

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Pay dirt!

There is a copy of the original trim alternatives card posted in the reply.

Could i recommend that a scan of the ENTIRE card be added to the references at this site?

I wanted to ask the question first here, sometimes Avanti questions get the short shift on the SDC site..

I've posed the question there...here's a link to the thread...

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/top...414?

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  • 13 years later...
On 10/21/2008 at 8:16 AM, tsterkel said:

 

 

 What would be the "salt" color, given the interior is Elk/Fawn, exterior Metallic Maroon.

 

(Interesting older post).....On the original '63 Studebaker Avanti "Salt & Pepper" interior carpeting, wasn't the "Salt" color more of a LIGHT TAN than pure WHITE ?

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11 hours ago, mfg said:

YES!:)....the carpet sample looks correct to me...........but the 'Fawn' and the 'Elk' samples appear, to me, a bit too dark.

Yes. They look too dark. Easy to compare Fawn Instrument panel. Maybe there is a reason to show so dark; if correct hard to see is it white or "beige" in different kind of screen.

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The term "Salt & pepper" just means that the carpets in some '63 Avantis are two tone.  In other words, a black background & either orange, fawn, turquoise, or red "salted" in.

Not all '63 Avantis had salt & pepper carpets.  Some color combinations used solid black carpets.  Black carpets were used with upholstery combination #2 (Fawn & Elk) ONLY.  These cars were available ONLY with an exterior color of either gold or red.  (source: 1963 Avanti Color & Upholstery Selector book)

If you think about the above color combinations (in & out) they will make sense (at least most of them).

All '64 Avantis had black carpets (possible exceptions: early round headlight '64 Avantis)

--Dwight

Edited by Dwight FitzSimons
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2 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

The term "Salt & pepper" just means that the carpets in some '63 Avantis are two tone.  In other words, a black background & either orange, fawn, turquoise, or red "salted" in.

Not all '63 Avantis had salt & pepper carpets.  Some color combinations used solid black carpets.  Black carpets were used with upholstery combination #2 (Fawn & Elk) ONLY.  These cars were available with an exterior color of either black, white, turquoise, gold, or red.  (source: 1963 Avanti Color & Upholstery Selector book)

If you think about the above color combinations (in & out) they will make sense (at least most of them).

All '64 Avantis had black carpets (possible exceptions: early round headlight '64 Avantis)

--Dwight

I agree.....with one exception!..........I understand you to say solid black carpets were used with combo #2, (Fawn & Elk).......Perhaps on many '63 Avantis solid black carpeting was used with the Fawn & Elk interior, however, my own '63 Avanti, 63R1379, came with salt & pepper (tan & black) carpeting...and yes, it has a Fawn & Elk interior.:o

 I replaced the carpeting in this Avanti several years ago (with all black!), but kept some pieces of its original salt & pepper carpet.....Ed:)

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On 10/21/2008 at 8:16 AM, tsterkel said:

first a quote

"If your VIN is lower than 4892 it's a salt and pepper and after is all black.

ErnieR"

Geek is 1064 R2 Manual. I have looked at the carpets many times. They "look" original, and are all black.

1. Did I make a bad assumption?

2. what would be the "salt" color, given the interior is Elk/Fawn, exterior Metallic Maroon.

thanks!

Your car (63R1064) is correct.  An Avanti Red '63 with Fawn & Elk interior would have come with black carpets.

As to the statement: "If your VIN is lower than 4892 it's a salt and pepper and after is all black," that statement isn't true.

--Dwight

Edited by Dwight FitzSimons
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1 hour ago, mfg said:

I agree.....with one exception!..........I understand you to say solid black carpets were used with combo #2, (Fawn & Elk).......Perhaps on many '63 Avantis solid black carpeting was used with the Fawn & Elk interior, however, my own '63 Avanti, 63R1379, came with salt & pepper (tan & black) carpeting...and yes, it has a Fawn & Elk interior.:o

 I replaced the carpeting in this Avanti several years ago (with all black!), but kept some pieces of its original salt & pepper carpet.....Ed:)

Your car isn't an exception to what I stated (But, the last sentence of my second paragraph (above) should be striken (reason: misleading.).  According to the Avanti Color & Uph Selector book the Fawn & Black "salt & pepper"carpets could have come with either the Fawn & Elk or Fawn & Black upholstery.  And, the Fawn & Elk interior is the only interior color that could have come with black carpets.  Further, the only exterior colors available with BOTH Fawn & Elk uph. AND Fawn & Black carpets were Avanti Black and Avanti White.  

Related to this, I fixed up a '63 Avanti years ago.  It was built Avanti Gold with Fawn & Elk interior.  Predictably, there was still some of its original black carpet high up in the firewall area.

One takeaway is that a Fawn & Elk interior could have come with EITHER Fawn & Black carpets or all-black carpets (depending on the exterior color).

Another takeaway is that ONLY the Fawn & Elk interior could have come with black carpets.  ALL other interior upholstery colors came with salt & pepper carpets.

So, we can conclude that your Avanti # 63R1379's exterior must have been either Avanti Black or Avanti White.  (Unless, of course, someone ordered the car with an out-of-normal combination.)

--Dwight

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8 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

Your car isn't an exception to what I stated (But, the last sentence of my second paragraph (above) should be striken (reason: misleading.).  According to the Avanti Color & Uph Selector book the Fawn & Black "salt & pepper"carpets could have come with either the Fawn & Elk or Fawn & Black upholstery.  And, the Fawn & Elk interior is the only interior color that could have come with black carpets.  Further, the only exterior colors available with BOTH Fawn & Elk uph. AND Fawn & Black carpets were Avanti Black and Avanti White.  

Related to this, I fixed up a '63 Avanti years ago.  It was built Avanti Gold with Fawn & Elk interior.  Predictably, there was still some of its original black carpet high up in the firewall area.

One takeaway is that a Fawn & Elk interior could have come with EITHER Fawn & Black carpets or all-black carpets (depending on the exterior color).

Another takeaway is that ONLY the Fawn & Elk interior could have come with black carpets.  ALL other interior upholstery colors came with salt & pepper carpets.

So, we can conclude that your Avanti # 63R1379's exterior must have been either Avanti Black or Avanti White.  (Unless, of course, someone ordered the car with an out-of-normal combination.)

--Dwight

Hi, Do you mean that Gold an Red which had Fawn/Elk interior had not Black carpet in early models? Like the selector shows. Those had only Fawn/Black carpet?
 

Edited by Leo B
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12 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:

Don't forget the 813 BKV option for late 63. This was black vinyl interior with solid black carpet.

OK. Thanks. Do you mean for all Exterior color which had Velvet Black 813 interior? All 1963 had.

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1 hour ago, Leo B said:

Hi, Do you mean that Gold an Red which had Fawn/Elk interior had not Black carpet in early models? Like the selector shows. Those had only Fawn/Black carpet?
 

Hi,

Avanti Gold & Red paint colors were both available with a Fawn & Elk interior.  The carpet in either a gold or red car (with Fawn & Elk int.) would have been solid black.

Conversely, the Fawn & Elk interior could have been ordered with a black, white, gold, or red exterior.  With the black or white exterior (and Fawn & Elk int.) the carpets would have been salt & pepper.
 
At least, that's how I read the 1963 Avanti Color & Uph Selector book.  The combinations (or permutations) were complex, with 6 exterior colors, 5 interior colors, and 5 carpet colors.  And, one can't exclude the possibility of an "unauthorized" combination being ordered by a dealer for an eccentric customer.

The complex combinations of these exterior colors, uph colors, & carpet colors may have been one reason Studebaker simplified the '64s.

--Dwight

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28 minutes ago, Leo B said:

OK. Thanks. Do you mean for all Exterior color which had Velvet Black 813 interior? All 1963 had.

Yes, according to the 1963 Avanti Color & Upholstery Selector book a Fawn & Black interior was available with any color exterior.  So, I assume the same rules would apply to the late-1963 813BKV interior option.

--Dwight

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To be certain of how your Avanti was originally equipped, you should purchase the factory production order from the Studebaker National Museum, or from Nostalgic Motorcars.  This production order will show how your car was equipped when it left the factory.

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1 hour ago, lschuc said:

To be certain of how your Avanti was originally equipped, you should purchase the factory production order from the Studebaker National Museum, or from Nostalgic Motorcars.  This production order will show how your car was equipped when it left the factory.

Hi Ischuc, I have Production Record Copy and Drive-Away Shipper from Museum. I see that my Avanti interior is 953 RDV but nothing about Carpet.
I dont find email to Nostalgic Motorcars. I like to buy Born Report Build Sheet. I tried from webshop but shop didnt accept to send to Finland.
Strange that I dont find interior 953 RDV. Maybe just written wrong? Correct Metal Red which I think I have is 853 RDV.
Dwight. Do you find 953 RDV?

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Can you post an image of the production order? 

The best way to contact Dan at Nostalgic Motorcars is by phone.

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39 minutes ago, lschuc said:

Can you post an image of the production order? 

The best way to contact Dan at Nostalgic Motorcars is by phone.

IMG_2920.thumb.jpg.dbd88a1d7ffed249bf5d3b8734f6809f.jpg

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I can't make out the serial number on your production order, but it begins with R-45xx  so what is the full serial number?   Your production order says that your Avanti was tagged 99 Las Vegas Driveaway.   So it should be listed among all the driveaway cars on pages 20 and 21 of Avanti Magazine Issue 195 last fall.  

Because it is a 1963 model, it would have had speckled carpet, black and some other color, probably black and red speckled carpet.   Over 60 years of use and several owners, it very well could have had the carpets replaced with all black carpets.   What color is the carpet on the. bottom of your door panels?  

Since you're in Finland,  email Dan Booth at avantisrus@gmail.com   and you can ask about his Born reports and see if anything mentions carpets.

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