regnalbob
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Posts posted by regnalbob
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Adjusted the transmission shift points.
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33 minutes ago, regnalbob said:
If the Studebaker Sales Letter is wrong and the R3 was available before August 1, 1963 can you explain why no 1963 Studebakers or Avantis were built with the R3 engine?
31 minutes ago, mfg said:Elementary my dear Watson....None were ordered.
Minutes of March 11, 1963 meeting of Studebaker department heads.
R-3 Engine
Mr. Detzler inquired as to when the R-3 engine would be available. He said Sales has a few orders and would like an indication of delivery dates.
Mr. Hardig reported that Mr. Granatelli expects to finish one engine for Mr. Egbert by the end of March. Another six are in production and it is expected that basic production delivery of these engines will be scheduled for the latter part of April. Costs are being developed, and before selling prices are set, top management will determine the amount which the Corporation will absorb.
Minutes of April 22, 1963 meeting of Studebaker department heads.
R3 Engine Pricing
Mr. Detzler wanted to know what the status of this is and when we are going to get the prices. We don’t have many orders for these engines, but they are old and the customers are crying for them. Dr. Lamberti indicated that we would be happy if we didn’t sell one engine. Right now, Mr. Granatelli says it will be in June sometime. He has given Mr. Egbert the date of June 20. He’s running his Novis in the 500. It won’t take him very long after the end of May because he has a lot of stuff in process, and he has almost enough material for the whole 100 engines. He has one engine ready that he will put into a car we sent out there.
Pricing-wise, our suggestion is that we should cover manufacturing costs. Mr. Egbert has all the papers for the pricing for all the ranges, along with the comments of Sales and PR. Their price suggestions vary all the way from $500 to $1,000. Sales recommended $500-$600, and Messrs. Dredge and Granatelli said we could live with about $900. The price includes the whole kit. Our manufacturing costs run about $1,400. Dr. Lamberti suggested that Mr. Rickus write a memo to Mr. Egbert summarizing these points, showing competition prices, PR opinion, manufacturing costs, etc.
Mr. Dredge strongly recommends that we have some engines pretty soon. We talked ourselves out of one blowoff, but he doesn’t think we can talk ourselves out of two.
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17 hours ago, mfg said:
Another document confirming that the Avanti R3 engine was made available by Studebaker Corp. as optional equipment for 1963 is a letter from R. C. Atkinson of Studebaker's General Service Dept. to Bob Palma and George Krem.....A portion of this letter states...." At the present time, the R3 engine has been released for installation in Studebaker's Avanti "
This document is dated... JANUARY 8TH, 1963.....far predating the JUNE 10TH, 1963 document you hung your hat on...
If the Studebaker Sales Letter is wrong and the R3 was available before August 1, 1963 can you explain why no 1963 Studebakers or Avantis were built with the R3 engine?
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17 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:
R3S M506 does not follow the engine numbering scheme. That would make it an engine assembled in November 1965. It that a typo?
I assume that R3S 1496 follows the earlier numbering scheme (before August 63).
Just a typo.
From the R3 Engine Registry.
B46 R3S M306 R-5642
B43 R3S M306 R-5643
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11 hours ago, mfg said:
Sorry you feel that way, however, in the meantime think about this........... "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts".......Wooden
Have a nice day!
I never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
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3 hours ago, mfg said:
Sorry, but you are wrong again Regnalbob! (WOW, you really haven't been doing very well with these trivia questions lately
!!)
2 hours ago, mfg said:I always get a chuckle when Regnalbob tries to re-create history
!!..
2 hours ago, mfg said:I do give Regnalbob credit for his tenacity, and also that he didn't feel it necessary to "block out" portions of his R3 document, as he did the Studebaker document he posted as a rebuttal in the "Avanti Wires" trivia question.
You never seem to be at a loss for petty and inane comments.
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12 minutes ago, r1lark said:
Is there a Studebaker Sales Letter that announces this to the Dealers? It's one thing to tell the AMA that the R3 will be an option (to make 'back door' hand-built engines legal for various forms of racing}. But if no official Studebaker notification was provided to the Dealers informing them of the option, cost, ordering info, etc how could that be a true option? I don't know, maybe more knowledgeable folks can carry on this debate.
Here is the letter.
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16 minutes ago, mfg said:
Sorry, but you are wrong again Regnalbob! (WOW, you really haven't been doing very well with these trivia questions lately
!!)
As explained by George Krem on PG 18 of the June, 2019 TURNING WHEELS, the AMA specification sheet dated July 23, 1962 listed the R3 engine as a 1963 Studebaker option!
To be clear, none were built on the assembly line, however, it indeed WAS a 1963 option.
Sorry, the answer is false.
The Studebaker Confidential Price List for 1963 does not list the R3 as an option for any model 1963 Studebaker.
Studebaker takes precedent over the AMA and you.
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1 hour ago, r1lark said:
Since I don't believe the R3 was available at the start of 1963 production, I'll say FALSE.
55 minutes ago, mfg said:Sorry Paul, it was available from the get-go!
....Answer...TRUE!
Paul is correct, check your facts.
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21 hours ago, mfg said:
The RQ number indicates the number of the body, for parts ordering purposes.
3 hours ago, mfg said:Regnalbob.....please read Skip Lackie's response to this trivia question....It may help you in understanding the importance of Studebaker/Avanti Body Tag Numbers....far beyond simply indicating if a body was assembled in Ashtabula or South Bend!
The body number was not needed to order parts.
Parts were ordered by serial number when required.
The Avanti Parts Catalog listed parts by before and after serial numbers, not body numbers.
Avanti running changes were listed by serial number, not body numbers.
The body tag number was important to Studebaker if they had any problems with the Ashtabula or South Bend body.
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31 minutes ago, mfg said:
Wrong again Bob!...Newman & Altman frequently requested Avanti body numbers back when they were the parts source...even more so on the transition models!
Regnalbob has to learn that you "NEVER SAY NEVER" when it comes to Avantis!
I doubt Newman & Altman requested body numbers.
Studebaker used serial numbers and not body numbers in the parts catalog and Newman & Altman probably did the same.
Do you have any facts to support your claim?
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The body number also indicates whether you have an Ashtabula body or a South Bend body.
Ashtabula bodies start with RQ-101
South Bend bodies start with RQ-5001
The serial number was used for parts ordering, not the body number.
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16 minutes ago, mfg said:
Yes, I see what you & Gary are saying...Stude Service Letter G-1964-3B stated that '63' would be dropped from serial number after #3100.
For this trivia question I used the owner of 63R4301's information as printed.
The Production Order included with the article shows the correct serial number as R-4301.
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46 minutes ago, mfg said:
No, you are not correct about this Bob....Your answer of $63.00 would have been correct if the original question had a cut off date of 11/11/63...however, it did not.
Price increases are unfortunately a fact of life, and I regard the final (11/11/63) price change as the correct answer to this trivia question.
(when Ford first introduced their F series pickup it could be purchased for around $1290.00....I don't think you would expect to pay $1290.00 for the 2021 version...would you?
It is not a cut off date. Buyers would have been charged $63.00 until the price increase on 11/11/63.
How can you regard the price change as the correct answer when you have nothing to support it?
29 minutes ago, mfg said:Apparently there was, however, I do not have it...I obtained this information from George Krem's article, on pg 16 of the September 1989 Turning wheels.
(In the article, Mr. Krem relates to price changes for 1964 models released by Studebaker Corp. on 11/11/63.)
You have nothing to support your claim of a price increase.
The $63.00 cost is also listed in The Studebaker Avanti Production Data with data from George D. Krem.
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22 hours ago, mfg said:
Turns out regnalbob's information was incorrect, superseded on a price change sheet released by Studebaker on 11/11/63....The correct answer is $68.00.....EXCEPT on GT Hawks, where the wire spoke disc option cost $63.00!
19 hours ago, regnalbob said:Please post that price change sheet.
13 hours ago, mfg said:We're STILL wondering why you blocked out 90% of Studebaker Sales Letter 190 dated 10/28/63 ?
My information is not incorrect. Any orders before 11/11/63 would be $63.00.
I posted the sales letter that contains all the information needed to answer the original question.
Will you post the the price change sheet released by Studebaker on 11/11/63 ?
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2 hours ago, mfg said:
Turns out regnalbob's information was incorrect, superseded on a price change sheet released by Studebaker on 11/11/63....The correct answer is $68.00.....EXCEPT on GT Hawks, where the wire spoke disc option cost $63.00!
Please post that price change sheet.
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$1412.70
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2 hours ago, mfg said:
So what's so special about Studebaker Avanti R4370?
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R1 R-4370 - Jack Vines, Spokane, WA
AOAI 2011 - (entry Apr 2001)R1 gold/fawn, automatic, PS, AC, TT, tinted glass, radio, rear
speaker. Modified by George Barris Kustoms to 1965 Loewy design
drawings-quad headlights, vinyl roof, flared rear fenders, Dayton
knock-off wire wheels, dechromed hood and rear deck, Nardi wood
steering wheel.
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16 minutes ago, mfg said:
Good job Bob!....(Actually, the true answer here is..... 'whatever the dealer wanted to charge'!
)
No, the true answer to the original question is $63.00.
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25 minutes ago, mfg said:
Please post Studebaker Sales letter 190.....Thanks!
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3 hours ago, mfg said:
My info indicates #3, but $63.00 is close enough!
$63.00 is not close enough, it is correct.
Your info is wrong.
My info is from Studebaker Sales Letter 190 , 1964 Avanti prices.
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21 hours ago, mfg said:
"Wire Spoke Wheel Discs", could be ordered as optional equipment on any 1964 Studebaker passenger car, including Avantis, for an extra......?.....
1) 37.25.......2) 56.50.....3) 68.00.....or....4) 74.55
None of the above for the Avanti.
For the Avanti it was a $63.00 option.
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Not all 1964 Avantis had a chrome handle.
Early models had a white handle.
Chrome handles started with R-4878.
Avanti Carpeting!
in Avanti Trivia
Posted
Avantis before 4309 would have 11 pieces of carpet in the trunk.