regnalbob
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Posts posted by regnalbob
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1 hour ago, mfg said:
Interestingly, the code number assigned to 'Avanti Gold Poly' was the last exterior paint code number (P-6337) assigned to a Studebaker Avanti......The paint code number right before it (P-6336) was assigned to the late '64 Studebaker Avanti color 'Avanti Maroon'.
The code for Avanti Maroon is P6436.
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This has been discussed before and there is only one Avanti Gold for 1963 (P6333) and 1964 (P6433).
These numbers are shown on the ordering guides for 1963 and 1964 Avantis.
There is no mention of P6337 which would be a 1963 code and not 1964.
Also the code for Avanti Maroon is P6436, not P6336.
Read the last post.
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mfg
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Studebaker offered only one 'Avanti Gold' exterior color for the '63-'64 Avantis.....True?
schuyler
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Yes, and it was Avanti Gold Metallic # 7003-BD. Dupont Lucite. This applies to 1963. I am not sure if 1964 was the same.
mfg
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schuyler says True,.....Any other opinions on this question?
mfg
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Any other thoughts here?
mfg
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Apparently, Studebaker offered two 'Avanti Golds'....The PPG 'AVANTI GOLD' paint page from '63-'64 indicates this,....But I'm not sure of what the actual difference in the final color was!
1) 'AVANTI GOLD'...PPG mix code # 21530------------------- 2) 'AVANTI GOLD POLY'...PPG mix code # 22480 Different code numbers indicate slightly different colors...Answer to question...FALSE!
brad
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No actually, it means two different people from PPG mixed two different formulas at two different times. The ORIGINAL R-M lacquer was one formulation.
mfg
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On 2/22/2015 at 6:11 PM, brad said:No actually, it means two different people from PPG mixed two different formulas at two different times. The ORIGINAL R-M lacquer was one formulation.
No brad, two different formulations could easily be produced from DIFFERENT paint companies, but two different formulations of the same code (color) would never occur from the same company....unless there was a specific reason!.....With some 'digging' we'd probably find that R-M also had two different 'Avanti Golds' during the production run of the Studebaker Avanti!
brad
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Posted February 23, 2015 (edited)I can pull up codes for colors that have 12 different formulations for the same color. They are called variance chips. You can get different colors from the same mix if you spray it differently. I have probably painted over 2OO2 vehicles in my career. You don't just buy paint and spray it and expect it to match. It will not happen.
Many, many times these "variances" are totally different toners off the mixing bank, not just different amounts of the same toner.
Edited February 23, 2015 by bradmfg
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I understand that brad, as I have probably painted over 2001 vehicles in my career..But you're incorrect if you feel this second formula is a color 'variance'...You see, color 'variances' are slight changes to an original paint formula. (or mix) What we're speaking of here is an entirely different formula (or mix)...(Nice try though!)
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Posted February 23, 2015 (edited)On 2/22/2015 at 11:11 AM, mfg said:Apparently, Studebaker offered two 'Avanti Golds'....The PPG 'AVANTI GOLD' paint page from '63-'64 indicates this,....But I'm not sure of what the actual difference in the final color was!
1) 'AVANTI GOLD'...PPG mix code # 21530------------------- 2) 'AVANTI GOLD POLY'...PPG mix code # 22480 Different code numbers indicate slightly different colors...Answer to question...FALSE!
The formula called for from Studebaker is what the paint companies use.The paint was mixed according to this formula. Different code numbers are used for the type of paint -- lacquer, acrylic lacquer or enamel.
Only one Avanti Gold was available. The dealer did not have two color chips of Avanti Gold to show a customer.
If the dealer or body shop had to repaint or touch up how would they know which one to use if there were two formulas?
Unless you have a build sheet, window sticker, factory formula or a sticker from under the glove box to show something different than
P-6333 or P-6433 there is only one Avanti Gold.
Edited February 23, 2015 by Regnalbobmfg
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Actually Bob, both these numbers are for PPG (Ditzler at that time) 'Duracryl' acrylic lacquer paint.....Don't forget now...the second formula indicates 'Poly'.
'Avanti Turquoise' is another problematic color...Both PPG and Dupont only have one paint mix formula for this color....but their end results are 'Night and Day' believe me!
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UPDATE on this trivia question.......I phoned an auto body paint supply house yesterday that sells 'PPG'. I was told that the 'Avanti Gold' color itself would most probably be exactly the same from either mix....but 'Poly' would indicate the second formula (mix) may stand up to the elements (sun, rain) longer than the first one would. (More durable paint) This info is probably correct, as I do remember that factory paint jobs on original Studebaker Avantis painted 'Avanti Gold' seemed to 'wash out' (fade) rather quickly.
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13 hours ago, mfg said:
Due to clearance issues, the 'Due Cento' Avanti did not run with wheelcovers on its rear wheels when the rear 1/4 panel skirts were being used.......True?
False.
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1 hour ago, murph the surf said:
MFG-I found your post,and see that a relatively early production R2 ,63R-1252, is listed as an Avanti owned by Mr. Egbert.The red 1964 Avanti,R4130 ,is a much later car,and is generally known as the car that Mr. Egbert sold just before his passing-yet the R2 car described by Briggs as being offered to him by Mr. Egbert just before his passing was stated to be black in color.Adding to the confusion,there were actually TWO build sheets prepared by Studebaker for serial number R4130-one build sheet describes a red car,yet the other that was also listed as R4130,but "penciled in" as R4131 (over the typed R4130 number) sheets
is BLACK in color.(build sheets attached)..Just wondering what the story is!!!!
No confusion.
There is only one build sheet for R-4130. That is a typo for R-4131. Look closely at the build sheets and you will see they are different cars.
R-4131 was a sold car and shipped to San Francisco and R-4130 was sent to engineering.
Body numbers and engine numbers are different as well as the date they were built.
They both have South Bend built bodies.
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6 hours ago, alsancle said:
Thanks. I will buy that book.
Also, a forum member messaged me this link: http://www.studebaker-info.org/avanti_all.html which I had looked at but missed the numbers. The 643 R2 four speed cars is what I was after.
1963 R2 4 Speed 643
1964 R2 4 Speed 95
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1 hour ago, alsancle said:
Ok, so with some help from another forum I figured this out for myself. The museum will make a hand copy of the production order for you which is basically how the car was ordered. The ebay seller is I assume Nostalgic Motors which has copies of the build sheets, inspection forms and dealer invoices which are after the build documents. They will keep the originals and send you copies I'm guessing that anyone that owns a car should probably buy all 4 items.
No need to buy all four. The production order and build sheet are the same form.
Get the three from Nostalgic Motors and you will have everything you need.
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Available from the Studebaker Museum.
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On 9/30/2017 at 8:03 PM, studegary said:
What Studebaker employee said that the Avanti "...was a greater sales 'dog' than the Edsel."?
Otto Klausmeyer
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On 9/24/2017 at 8:33 AM, mfg said:
So, what was the electrical problem....and its result......... that the Di-noc dash & console applique SOMETIMES created on the '64 Avantis?
Poor ground on the wiper switch would not allow the wipers to return to the park position.
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On 9/26/2017 at 10:34 PM, studegary said:
How much did the Studebaker Executive Committee approve to spend on starting an Avanti body production line in South Bend?
Like MFG, I will make this easier by giving four options; 1) $200,000, 2) $400,000, 3) $600,000 or 4) $800,000.
$600,000
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For those not familiar with the Lamberti Papers here is the discussion of the Di-Noc problem and you can decide for yourself who you want to believe.
There is no mention of first using Tenite and replacing it with Di-Noc.
For me I will believe the Studebaker Executives.
The Lamberti Papers
Minutes of June 24, 1963 meeting of Studebaker department heads.
STAFF MEETING – June 24, 1963 Dr. Lamberti was absent this meeting. Mr. Minkel, Acting Chairman
(Mr. Egbert was present for a portion of the meeting)
ENGINEERING
1. Di-Noc
Mr. Minkel showed some samples of parts that indicate the Di-Noc on the Avantis is shrinking and buckling. This came to the attention of Sales in connection with the 8 Avantis trimmed with Di-Noc that were shipped to Las Vegas. The temperature was 105º, and the Di-Noc began to shrink and buckle while the cars were waiting in the railroad yard. Mr. Challinor is sending a man out there this afternoon to take the Di-Noc out of the 8 cars. Mr. Minkel understood that Manufacturing knew of this problem early last week and asked that Sales be notified on this kind of thing before shipments are made so that something can be done, but Mr. Whitmer explained that Manufacturing did have problems last week, but the vendor had replaced the material and we thought it was okay. We didn’t know we didn’t have a cure; that all came up on Friday. He added that Sales would certainly have been notified if Manufacturing had known they had the problem.
Possible solutions to the problem were discussed, and the following pertinent facts were brought out:
a. For the past week, Production has been putting in the Di-Noc, so practically all units we have are trimmed in it.
b. It is possible to change back to the old way by stripping the Di-Noc off the painted surfaces and touching them up; that is, all except the vertical panel that has the word “Avanti” on it.
c. On this panel, the word “Avanti” has been ground off in preparation for the application of the Di-Noc, and consequently we have no material for these panels.
d. If we can’t get the plates with “Avanti” on them quickly, we could change them later in the field.
e. We have about 80 old wheels that could be used instead of the black ones.
f. We’re supposed to get material in today that is laminated on metal, and there will be no shrinkage on that. (This is like the material used in the Hawk.) However, material for the console will not be here for a couple of weeks because tools have to be made. Since this is a painted process, we should be able to get it as dark as we want it.
g. The Avanti line will be shut down July 2, and startup will be July 22, so the new material should be available by the startup date.
h. Sales will make up a list of cars that have been shipped out so that Service can see what can be done.
i. Mr. Egbert suggested Minnesota Mining be pushed to continue working on the Di-Noc because it would be less expensive than the metal route.
Mr. Minkel commented that it’s a 4-hour job just to replace the instrument panel, and Mr. Feuer asked about vendor responsibility on this. Mr. de Blumenthal said he understood the salesman had assured us it would not shrink, in which case Minnesota Mining should be responsible. Mr. Egbert told Mr. Brown to push Minnesota Mining and keep Mr. Feuer advised.
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39 minutes ago, mfg said:
John Hull & Gary Johnson co-wrote an interesting article on this subject which was published in Avanti Magazine # 171.
You may want to look over that article to garner more information!
You may want to read The Lamberti Papers and garner the correct information.
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Tenite is a plastic and not a wood grain applique. The wood grain steering wheels are made from Tenite.
Only Ni-Doc was used for the wood grain accent panels.
The original that failed was a paste on and replaced by a laminated version.
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Sigmund Gegax
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On 8/30/2017 at 9:33 PM, studegary said:
False - There were 166 in 1987 (one of which I bought new) and 180 in 1988.
22 hours ago, mfg said:Sorry, false is not correct!
2 hours ago, mfg said:Your production figures are off Gary,.....1987....163 units.......1988.....180 units!
Gary's answer and production figures are correct.
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$20.00
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https://www.studebakerparts.com/studebakerparts/store/s/agora.cgi
529367 is available.
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10 1/2 inches long, 2 inch inside dimension at pipe and 2 3/4 inches outside at end. They are attached to the rear frame crossmember using a strap and u-bolt and saddle clamp.
On 5/9/2017 at 10:50 AM, schuyler said:Good morning!
Can anyone tell me the original factory dimensions of the 63-64 Avanti Chrome exhaust pipe tips? Total length? Inside dimension at pipe? Outside dimension at end? Also, how did they attach?
Thank you!
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On 3/15/2017 at 5:24 PM, mfg said:
A normal factory windshield washer bag location cannot be utilized in Studebaker Avantis equipped with the R3 or the R4 engine due to interference between the bag and the extended crankcase breather pipe used on those engines......True?
False.
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3 hours ago, mfg said:
No one's heard of R3 engine # B-62?
63R-1014, the # 8 Bonneville Avanti.
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On 3/18/2017 at 8:18 AM, mfg said:
Iinterestingly, although the 'Bonneville' Larks and GT Hawks all had the "STUDEBAKER" logo on their rear fenders, the 'Bonneville' Avantis did not.....True?
False.
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1 hour ago, mfg said:
Studebaker R3 engine # B-98 powers a VERY SPECIAL Avanti.....Does anyone know which Avanti this is?
Sherwood Egbert's R-4130.
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On 2/15/2017 at 4:27 PM, mfg said:
The improved race load springs Studebaker released for installation into Paxton superchargers in late '63 can be identified by their blue color....True?
False, red.
Avanti Airlift!
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Balloons with Avanti by Studebaker printed on them and a small Avanti flag.