James Bond
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Posts posted by James Bond
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I just had mine "fixed", it was a couple of loose wires, also my antenna, had a loose ground wire, and didn't work either. Both fixed for $230.00. Radio still doesn't work!I just joined the infamous power window failure club. Mine's a 1989 and I understand that the motors are same as Ford Mustang. Fortunately it is up and not down. Any suggestions?
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in Avanti Pub
I really don't think you have to worry about tempers flaring. Yours is a reasonable statement and request. As far as build sheets are concerned, I've been trying to find one for my baby to no avail. From what I hear, record keeping could be lax at times! All you can do is the best you can. You may not always be up to specs...so what! It's the respect that you show your car...not the specs!Yes, the build sheets are a very good source and helped me identify a car that had been previously amateurly restored, likely from whatever parts were available. My wife's Avanti also a '63 had been "renewed" by Newman/Altman in ~ 1983 replacing the 289/4-speed with a 350 Chevy/Turbo 400/flanged Dana 44 and the interior was an '83 vintage Avanti II complete with Recarro's. Today that car could be only be described as a RestoRod with an LS motor and AiRide Suspension, so I play in both pools too!
It was nice to find out under all that old paint and amateur resto job resided exactly the car/color combo I had always wanted. What gave me 'Ojida' was the nuts & bolts part of the restoration. It's sad to still read the SDC site about people trying to find where certain decals belong or if they even did in the first place! I'm not one who likes to initiate controversy, but we need to find a way to separate opinions from fact and if they are not aligned, Judging Standards should at least be brought in-line with the same standards used in Nationally recognized Concour's Shows to move the Marque forward and achieve acceptance within the Collector Community,............... that's the most I would expect to achieve. If tempers flare over that, then .......there's not much hope within this community and it WILL be time to move on separately.
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in Avanti Pub
Yes, they do need to be marketed, I think we're all agreed on that. But do what we use as the hook? Rarity, design, performance? We have these on our side, at least historically. I really do believe this has to start as a grass roots effort, something that has to come from us. This is the start, this is the beginning, the nascence of the rebirth of the Avanti in the public's imagination. We're going to need some help along the way, but we are the root!I am willing to participate in a small working group to assist in outlining a program in this area and given a "small working group", I'm not sure a separate site is a necessity. I'd like to think that AOAI should be considered as the focal point for what we attempt as they have been the 'basis' for maintaining the Avanti name & interest since 1965. There'a a lot of info here and in the back issues of Avanti Mag, just not in a friendly format. Perhaps just a separate header in the Forum? Of course that will likely require some level of 'approval' from the ruling body. Being denied that, then perhaps going with the alternate plan.
My reasons for assisting in this is the difficultly I found in gaining rudimentary knowledge in what an original Avanti was! It seems the early years of AOAI was focused not so much on preservation and documentation as it was in finding ways to modify and keep your Avanti on the road. So, Number 1 on my list is: The lack of any "Formal Documentation" of what an original Avanti was and what a restored Avanti should be built to! When you go to "restore" a Corvette, you go to NCRS, buy the "Bible" for the year of car and simply follow the recipe book. With my Avanti, there were several cross country trips to visit owners of particular models who had cars that they were willing to share with me, allowing me photographs, Q&A time and just kicking back and discussing options. There was no Known Standard. Now, I'm not sure that it's even possible to 'document' an Avanti given Egbert's constant evolution design thought. Still it would have been nice to have had something more than just the Manual and people's opinion's to refer to and future collector's will want to have a reference manual that they can "goto".
The idea of building a Marque's interest is a study of time and time works or moves through cycles. I believe we are getting past the "Muscle Car" Fad again and will slowly turn back to a Design led interest. Just look back in time and see how the Ferarri market reacted in it's price swings. This comes from a few discussions I've had with different type's of collector's. We've seen the initial price spikes in muscle cars and the resulting return to earth. The Great cars get great money, the others are no longer all commanding 6 figure numbers but are still getting valued quite a bit higher than the Avanti. The other major influencing factor is the capital flow of funds into the US from Europe & Japan. Money is seeking a "safer"(relatively) and higher rate of return, hence our stock is climbing while Europe's and Japan's are not. As capital accumulates in an economy it seeks value and when soft investments become overpriced and the fear of inflation starts running through the markets, money migrates to harder assets like undervalued collectibles. In order to attract that Capital, we've got to present an investment that shows some rarity, value, an aesthetic nature and is desirable or envious(read subtley sexy). Loewy had some GREAT Quotes on just those items, they nned to be "Marketed".
I can be reach via email thru the personal messenger on this site.
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in Avanti Pub
No criticism taken. And your right, I am passionate. I think we all are, just differently. I think we all want the same thing. What we have to do is try to find the right direction to go in to get what we want. Should we start another thread as to implemtation? I don't know. I do know we have something important going here, and I want it to continue.
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in Avanti Pub
I'd like to speak on a purely personal note. Reading and responding to all the posts here make me realize how much we love our cars. We know what we have, and we want everyone else to know it too! I just went down to my garage, and wiped my baby down and cleaned the exterior glass. The song that kept on running through my head was "Shine On You Crazy Diamond". Mine is a diamond, as is yours. Diamonds aren't always perfect...yet they're diamonds nonetheless. Show the facets of your diamond and shine!
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in Avanti Pub
Obviously, the AOAI is monitoring our conversation. They have the guts and ground works in place to assist us in our endeavor. Perhaps they didn't realize the discontent that's out there. I do believe they have our back, as well as they can. But perhaps a change of direction...more towards promotion than reporting. More towards outreach, than preaching to the choir. Maybe distributing the magazine at car shows. Would this cost...yes. But it is an investment. One I think we should make. it's in all our self interest. Of course, if they can't help us, then we're on our own. We can still use this site as a jumping off point. A place to meet until something else better comes along!
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in Avanti Pub
Very well said! I agree with just everything you say. Especially the last line. The thing is, the free market CAN be swayed, and is all the time via the barrage of main stream media. We can do it too. We don't have the same resources, so it may take longer, but it can be done. This what we're trying to do here. Hopefully, through our discussions, a consensus of what to do will coalesce.While this is my opinion only, I do believe the Avanti has everything going for it...design pedigree, performance, safety and performance features (for the time), availability...everything but value in the free market. The Avanti, while generally well received when first introduced, failed for a variety of reasons. There were quality control issues, production issues, the stigma (unfairly so) of being a Studebaker, dealers who had no idea how to promote or sell them effectively, the "loser" identity from Studebaker failing as a car maker so soon after introduction...many reasons why. Raymond Loewy, while a highly respected industrial designer, was also considered an oddball and outside the mainstream automotive design community. Look at some of his personal designs and that is quite apparent. Let's be thankful his best ideas were incorporated into the Avanti design and the worst ideas discarded.
The Avanti holds status as a Milestone Car...only true car aficionados understand what that means. We all owe Nate Altman and the rest of those involved with Avanti Motors a huge debt of gratitude for saving the marque for as long as they did. They led the way for a small, cottage industry for parts and service so we can maintain these cars. With only a few left who have real institutional knowledge of the ins and out of these cars...the rest of us have learned by doing, experimenting and sharing what we've learned here and within local chapters.
The sad thing is the free market has decided the Avanti (with a few notable exceptions), isn't valued very high. We do have a small and dedicated number of enthusiasts who love the car for what it is and keep them on the road for enjoyment and exposure to the public...the public who for the most part has no knowledge that the Avanti ever existed...or of Studebaker for that matter.
The car market has changed...a generational change. My own observations, based in the area where I live, is that original type cars aren't valued as highly today. Today's generation is going after the rice-rocket cars and modifieds...resto-mods. They won't pay for an original, correct car of any make or model when they plan on cutting it up and modifying it. The generation that values original cars is dying off and I've seen values of many cars drop...not just due to the economy.
I've had my Avantis at many shows...I've heard many positive things about them. But has my enthusiasm and talking the cars up caused anyone to buy one? Not that I know of. It's still the Mustangs, Chevelles, Camaros, Mopars and a few others that still get the attention and mainstream acceptance.
I'm not being cynical...just recognizing reality. I'm optimistic about the future of Avantis in the future...there will always be a place for them. But it's up to us to show them, promote them, make the public aware of them. It's not going to happen by itself. In the end, though...the free market will continue to decide, fairly or unfairly, the value of our cars...both desirability-wise and financially.
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in Avanti Pub
Found this on Comcast home page http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/affordable-classic-cars-1.aspx?ec_id=cmcta_01_comm_aut_sidelink While it talks about seniors. It also talks about value. Guess what one of the cars are?
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in Avanti Pub
I don't know about the airplane. And I feel you're being cynical. WE are us...I'd think that would be obvious. We are the group. The plan has to come from us...that is why we're having this discussion. WE are talking about the possibilities, and what to do. The answer in not from without, but from within.James Bond,
I assume you are using the editorial "We". Wasn't that the name of an airplane that crashed in the Pacific that people are still looking for. That IMO is about as futile as making the Avanti more than it is. If you propose to form a group to further Avanti interest I will join. Give "we" a plan...
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in Avanti Pub
In the June 2013 issue of "Automobile Magazine", on page 106, there was a '63 Studebaker Avanti R2 that sold for $74,800! I tried to link the article, but I don't think it's posted. Like I've said before, I think people are waking up to this gem! Check it out!
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Why?
in Avanti Pub
WE, will! It has to be us! All we can expect of the AOAI is to give us a platform with which to talk about and coordinate our ideas and plans. After that, the ball is in our court. WE know and love this car. WE want others to appreciate it the way we do. Therefore it's up us to promote this beauty. It'll take time, but I do believe this car will have it's day!Marketing takes a paid organization, or a group of dedicated volunteers, or both. In any case money is usually the problem. Our organization is AOAI, but I don't see promotion as a current objective, or a committee to manage that.
Preparing our cars for show is beyond most of us as proud as we are. Restoration is a major issue. Could take a week or many years, and never cheap even DIY. Many show cars never become 'road' cars.
There are solutions to these problems which would enhance the value of Avantis. Won't happen at this forum. And probably not at AOAI. Who will do it?
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Why?
in Avanti Pub
Marketing takes a paid organization, or a group of dedicated volunteers, or both. In any case money is usually the problem. Our organization is AOAI, but I don't see promotion as a current objective, or a committee to manage that.
Preparing our cars for show is beyond most of us as proud as we are. Restoration is a major issue. Could take a week or many years, and never cheap even DIY. Many show cars never become 'road' cars.
There are solutions to these problems which would enhance the value of Avantis. Won't happen at this forum. And probably not at AOAI. Who will do it?
I understand what you're saying, But I don't necessarily agree. I understand some Avantis are fifty years old, and some are in less than pristine condition. The fact is they don't have to be show cars, road cars are enough. Maybe there are mechanical problems or a blister here or there...so what! All you need is a driver, a coat of wax and gas. The car will do the rest.Marketing takes a paid organization, or a group of dedicated volunteers, or both. In any case money is usually the problem. Our organization is AOAI, but I don't see promotion as a current objective, or a committee to manage that.
Preparing our cars for show is beyond most of us as proud as we are. Restoration is a major issue. Could take a week or many years, and never cheap even DIY. Many show cars never become 'road' cars.
There are solutions to these problems which would enhance the value of Avantis. Won't happen at this forum. And probably not at AOAI. Who will do it?
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Why?
in Avanti Pub
You're absolutely right! And I have to admit, I was kind of guilty of that myself! But I've changed my mind. I wanted to keep my mileage low...why? I never intend to sell my gem in my lifetime, so who am I saving it for? At first, I was nervous behind the wheel, looking at all the mirrors like a scared rabbit...no more. When I slip behind the wheel of my baby I'm the coolest guy alive! Also, this last car show I was in showed a heightened interest of this rolling work of art. I think this was due in part to a copy of the original invoice I had displayed propped up against the spare tire in the trunk. So many people stopped, read, and commented in various forms of amazement on just that little piece of information. It gave me the opportunity to tell them of this beauty! So please...drive it, drive it, drive it! And they will come! Or at least come around!I had my car out this weekend and again, got lots of comments.
And if you'll excuse me repeating myself from a couple of pages back...if you want to make Avantis more popular...drive them.
People can't love/like what they can't see.
So get your car out and drive it.
Stop hoarding parts and restore it.
Quit saving miles for the next owner. Drive it.
They're not THAT precious, rare or valuable. Drive it.
It's just a car (and a mass produced one at that). Drive it.
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in Avanti Pub
After I got my award, and exited, while I was making the turn to go, I heard a man say to a young boy, "Look at that beautiful Avanti!" I hope that statement was imprinted upon his young mind. A seed of appreciation. Who knows what kind of fruit that will bear?
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in Avanti Pub
I guess you'll have to cut and paste the url!Showed my baby at the Woodbury Ct Lion's Club car show. My class was "1981-2001 Production Cars" There were fourteen cars in my category. Among the approximately 300 cars that were there, I was the only Avanti. Many pictures were taken. Several conversations were struck up. It seems to me that people either do, or don't know about this car. When they saw it, they loved it! People will gravitate to quality. If you have a show-able car...show it! Oh, how did I do...I came in second in my category. I should have come in first...but that's for a future rant. Here is the winning ride...http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/IMG_0198.MOV?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=505181∂=2
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in Avanti Pub
Showed my baby at the Woodbury Ct Lion's Club car show. My class was "1981-2001 Production Cars" There were fourteen cars in my category. Among the approximately 300 cars that were there, I was the only Avanti. Many pictures were taken. Several conversations were struck up. It seems to me that people either do, or don't know about this car. When they saw it, they loved it! People will gravitate to quality. If you have a show-able car...show it! Oh, how did I do...I came in second in my category. I should have come in first...but that's for a future rant. Here is the winning ride...http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/IMG_0198.MOV?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=505181∂=2
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in Avanti Pub
I'm glad you do! I'm sure we're not alone. I'd like to hear from anyone who owns one of these diamonds and tell us what you think! If we are going to increase knowledge among the general populace, we need to increase it to ourselves. C'mon...tell us your story!
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in Avanti Pub
This car is a work of art. Art is very subjective, very personal. Yet the fundamental design is such that it can't help but speak to those who see it. It is a work of quality, it is a thing of beauty. Those things don't always go hand in hand...this time, they do. People need to know that. We need to educate them, to let them know what this car is, was, and means. Not just for the value, I know I'd never sell my baby. But for the appreciation it deserves. Price is just a way of keeping score of popularity, not of it's intrinsic worth. Those two definitely do not always go hand in hand!
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in Avanti Pub
I think it's all three. Is it so wrong towant to have a rare beauty, that is in demand? Is it so wrong to want your car to be worth what you think it should be? Doesn't it bother you that you're not getting the attention you know your car deserves? I have to tell you...it pisses me off!Nothing like favorable magazine articles to impress an interested public. AOAI can help create this publicity. The Mustang story worked because there were very good cars that would justify high prices. Raises the image for all, but discourages the entry level interest.
We do not have those show car choices for the Avanti. And who would part with them? On any given day look at those listed at eBay. Prices reflect condition, and many are "projects" even though some sellers think better.
Is the objective to enhance value? Increase demand? Or justify ownership? Different strokes for different folks...
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in Avanti Pub
Just in case you'd like to see my baby, and (ugh!) me, here it is http://www.flickr.com/photos/15128986@N07/
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in Avanti Pub
If I had the space, so would I. Would it be so bad to have another mobile work of art in your life?I hope so. If true I'm ready to buy another Studebaker Avanti.
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in Avanti Pub
Sir, you have said in just a few words what I have beed trying to say in too many, I fear! We CAN change what the public thinks about our gems! And gems they are!! Let people know the story of your undiscovered diamond. Give them something to look at and talk about in subdued awe. Information is our gateway to greater appreciation. Let's learn 'em!!I seem to recall a similar discussion on the SDC Forum and was reminded of the Mustang. Not too long ago, older Mustangs were not bringing down the bucks they are today. Seems that the Mustang Club of America decided to rally together and STOP SELLING their cars for cheap. Obviously this took some time and the Shelby versions helped to add to this. I am amazed at the "feeding frenzy" that goes on at Mecham and Barrett-Jackson auctions with many of the Mustangs that come across the block. It appears to me that increasing awareness of the Avanti comes before increasing their value and the Mustang Club of America model makes sense.
A second idea: we entered our '89 Convertible in the neighboring small town Memorial Day car show last Saturday and as always, I had great fun in talking up Avanti history. Specifically, we created a window placard that explains a bit about the car and its history. I DO NOT LIST all of the changes made to the car, who painted it, etc. I do explain it is one of only 228 convertibles, it cost $52,000 in 1989, etc. This is only 8 1/2 x 11 mounted in a Plexiglas sleeve that we place on the windshield (not the ground), and it gets read by a lot of people. And as folks take the time to read it, I have the opportunity to ask them if they have any questions. So few car owners bother to present this (or any) information or talk up their car. Most owners seem to sit on lawn chairs BEHIND their cars and if you have a question, you have to go seek them out.
One last note, the car show this last Saturday was in the (very) small town of Easton, Washington. This just happens to be the town in which Sherwood Harry Egbert (President of Studebaker Automotive Division and Father of the Avanti) was born and grew up. I had much fun sharing this bit of the history of the Father of the Avanti and his home town roots.
So make up some basic information placards, put them on the windshield of your Avanti at the next car show, and get out there and talk up this wonderful abnormality in automotive history that we have come to appreciate so much. We can change the awareness of the public, one person at a time.
Peace.................
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in Avanti Pub
As far as monetary value, my baby would sell for about 70k in today's dollars. A high ender to be sure!
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in Avanti Pub
I couldn't put it any better. Information is the key. I'm in the process of making up a showboard. Not a lot of pictures, but a lot of information! I have a copy of the the original sales invoice, along with a picture of the man who did my wood interior. I will display them in my opened trunk. Provenance means everything, at least right now!I seem to recall a similar discussion on the SDC Forum and was reminded of the Mustang. Not too long ago, older Mustangs were not bringing down the bucks they are today. Seems that the Mustang Club of America decided to rally together and STOP SELLING their cars for cheap. Obviously this took some time and the Shelby versions helped to add to this. I am amazed at the "feeding frenzy" that goes on at Mecham and Barrett-Jackson auctions with many of the Mustangs that come across the block. It appears to me that increasing awareness of the Avanti comes before increasing their value and the Mustang Club of America model makes sense.
A second idea: we entered our '89 Convertible in the neighboring small town Memorial Day car show last Saturday and as always, I had great fun in talking up Avanti history. Specifically, we created a window placard that explains a bit about the car and its history. I DO NOT LIST all of the changes made to the car, who painted it, etc. I do explain it is one of only 228 convertibles, it cost $52,000 in 1989, etc. This is only 8 1/2 x 11 mounted in a Plexiglas sleeve that we place on the windshield (not the ground), and it gets read by a lot of people. And as folks take the time to read it, I have the opportunity to ask them if they have any questions. So few car owners bother to present this (or any) information or talk up their car. Most owners seem to sit on lawn chairs BEHIND their cars and if you have a question, you have to go seek them out.
One last note, the car show this last Saturday was in the (very) small town of Easton, Washington. This just happens to be the town in which Sherwood Harry Egbert (President of Studebaker Automotive Division and Father of the Avanti) was born and grew up. I had much fun sharing this bit of the history of the Father of the Avanti and his home town roots.
So make up some basic information placards, put them on the windshield of your Avanti at the next car show, and get out there and talk up this wonderful abnormality in automotive history that we have come to appreciate so much. We can change the awareness of the public, one person at a time.
Peace.................
Why?
in Avanti Pub
Posted
You know, this may anger a lot of Mustang, Corvette, and Mercedes owners, (of any year). But when I'm driving my baby around, and I see one, I think in the words of Madeline Kahn in "Blazing Saddles", "Oh, how ordinarwy!" (sic). You should too!