[Why?]

I've often found while at a car show, it's difficult to get away to see other cars due to answering questions about my Avanti. As others are very curious about it, I see no reason not to talk Avantis up.

Then...there's always a few who try and impress me with their vast knowledge of Avantis...telling me that they were all built in Canada, had a Ford 289 engine, and came with turbochargers rather than superchargers. Those who know little or nothing about Avantis I'm more than happy to talk to and answer questions. Those that try and tell me I usually let them believe what they want...they're not interested in facts...only in showing their intellectual prowess...and smartening them up only creates problems in a public place.

You're absolutely right! These people you have to just let talk. One tried to tell me about a "Cadillac Avanti"...huh? I just smiled and nodded my head, "I'm not gonna change this guy's mind!" kept running through my head. He was pleasant enough, but obviously dead wrong. I tried to explain it might have been a dealership thing, but he would have none of it! So like I said, I just nodded my head. On the other hand, there are people quite interested in the car. When I show it, I prop up a copy of the original invoice against the spare tire. This minimal bit of information is quite popular, most people are impressed by the price of the car in 1989. I guess what I'm saying is Gunslinger, you're right. Show it, stay with it, be personable, friendly. Learn 'em as best we can!

[Why?]

Yes, but over time, don't you think that will build momentum, like a snowball rolling down a hill?

I have a friend who has a 1950 Stude Champion. A daily driver, but beautiful nonetheless. He's of the opinion that the odd ball cars, like his, (and ours), don't appeal to the Mustang/'Vette/ muscle car crowd. I guess it's a herd mentality. Although, by the same token, we want to relive our youth, have the cars we would have had, which now we can afford. How many of us said as a youngun' "I want an Avanti!!!" Not many I fear, although I was one. PR is not on our side. Yet, perhaps over time, this automotive orphan will be adopted by the car cognoscenti.

[Why?]

In my rounds today at every stop someone asked me 'who made it'. Many thought the mark was Italian. I explained it came from Youngstown Ohio...and that led to romancing the Studebaker story.

In my former life I would say marketing (broad-based communications) can build demand. Too late for Avanti. Best we can hope for is word of mouth and the occasional appearance in the marketplace.

Yes, but over time, don't you think that will build momentum, like a snowball rolling down a hill?

[Why?]

An overcast day. Took my baby out to run a few errands with my wife. As she was shopping, I parked in a semi safe place. As people went in and out, I got several serious glances...mostly from men. (which seems to be the case!). A man, walking towards the door saw my car, and gave me the thumbs up sign.

I waved through the sun roof, and he changed his direction and walked towards me, as he did I lowered my window. "I've always loved these cars!" he said. We talked a few minutes, and as we did, many of the people who came out gave us a good long look...recognition! The conversation ended with a sincere handshake through the car window. Another seed planted in the firmament!

[AVANTI! The Movie]

In 1972 Billy Wilder directed Jack Lemmon and Juliet Mills in the movie. Had nothing to do with our cars and those shown were Italian midget mobiles. Some critics liked it and some thought it should have been X rated with Ms. Miles topless scene and Lemmon's bare backside.

I liked it and recommend it to those who enjoy Italian scenery, Italian jokes and partial nudity. Perhaps you had to be there, or get it from Netflix.

I have seen part of the movie, though I have a copy of the poster in my continuing collection of "Avantiana"! As it were!

[Why?]

To anyone in the Newtown Ct. area, there is going to be a car show Sept. 28, at the Stop&Shop supermarket plaza on Sand Hill Rd. It will be a fund raiser for a local food pantry. 100% of the proceeds will be donated. Food and a dj will be there. There is no cut off. All vehicles are welcome. Each car will have a box in front of it. The more votes a car has, the more food in it's box. There will be no trophies given, except maybe bragging rights! So, if you're in the area, please give a visit. Also, visiting that day is Joe Morris of the 1987 Superbowl winning Giants. So as they say "Come on down!"

[Why?]

An R2 Avanti, 63R-1004, the fourth production car, has sold for a record $74,800 at the Gooding & Company auction on January 18, 2013 in Scottsdale, Arizona.

www.theavanti.net/r1004.html A beautiful specimen. But, I'm sure that some of us out there have one almost as nice. I think I do! You probably do too!! We're soon to be the idea who's time has come, I truly believe that! What will you do when you car is worth six figures? I'm not sure myself.

[Why?]

One of the biggest problems Studebaker experienced producing Avantis is that the design required so much hand assembly and far more man-hours involved than was desired in an assembly line form of production. That's not even taking into account the problems in body construction from Molded Fiberglass. A car that required so much handwork couldn't be mass produced with any level of quality control as Studebaker discovered...and one that was rushed into production with insufficient testing.

Nate Altman realized the only way the Avanti could be produced profitably was to do it as a deliberate low volume vehicle and use the man-hours involved to make it a quality product. That...and the bargain basement price Studebaker sold him the parts, tooling, buildings and documentation for certainly didn't hurt in getting the whole enterprise off the ground. It was a shoestring operation that paid off for Nate and even then...without Nate's vision, dedication and conservative business practices it likely wouldn't have worked.

I've said before...all Avanti aficionados...whether they own an Avanti or not...Studebaker and Avanti II alike...owe Nate Altman a great debt for what he accomplished.

And the continuation of the species!!

[Top 5 worst cars ever made, Studebaker has 2 spots]

Likely true. However as someone who was alive and watching in the immediate post war years I believe the 1950's and some 1960 cars were very attractive. Design is where marketing starts. As bad company economics and reactionary management prevailed there was less for promotion. In those years the company paid workers 30% more than the rest of the auto industry.

Loewy and Andy G. were savvy marketing. Competition got tougher. The Avanti was not a winner. When people make a joke of your product the end is near.

Avanti may have not been a winner(so far), but damnit...it's a surviver!!

[Why?]

Never thought about it, but our cars were truly 'hand made in the USA' As I understand Altman etal only had about 30 people assembling the Avanti II in South Bend. I will add that to my lecture.

Thanks

Joe

My pleasure! So many people say, "I'll only buy American!" What does that mean? Parts are made internationally, and assembled here, sometimes. Our cars WERE handmade, or maybe I should say, our cars were HANDMADE, both ideas very foreign nowadays.

[Why?]

I understand this car is a challenge to those who accept the regular stock of cars. Unfortunately, their ilk still rule. But when our time comes, it will be like a tsunami, a tidal wave of appreciation. An idea whose time has finally come!

[Why?]

I've taken my car to three events in the last two weeks. At one, it received the top 60-69 award against heavy competition. At another (where I just had it parked) I got many positive comments and probably would have received an award had I entered. At the third, I didn't get any award...it was run by a club and "the fix was in" as they say.

Still, it's great to show the flag.

Yeah...I've been to those shows too.

[Why?]

A couple of weeks ago I was at a multi-make show with about 30 other cars. An older guy comes up and really flips out over the car, he's been in high school in 63 and loved the Avanti but could never afford one. Today, he's a business owner and approaching retirement. He (and his wife who had never seen one) love the car. He gives me his business card and tells me to call him if I want to sell it. He's serious.

BTW: I won the 60-69 class.

Ahh! I'm sure he is! If I may relate my Avanti story. My wife and I were looking for a live xmas tree. We were driving along, when this exotic car came by the other way. What was that? Who makes that? I WANT ONE!! Although the years went by, the image in my mind never left...how could it? About six years ago, a co-worker, who has a 1950 Studebaker Champion, planted the seed to have a classic car. I looked in the local "auto specials" newspaper and found, a couple of possibilities. That night, I went on Amazon's auto site, and entered "Avanti" There was one, only two hours away drive. After a couple of phone calls, and my wife's agreement that it was an anniversary present, I drove it home. Whenever I leave, or whenever I come home, "my baby" is there to greet me.

[Why?]

PL, I saw my first Avanti at The FARM PROGRESS SHOW near South Bend, IN in Sept of 1963. I just thought the Avanti was the most amazing thing. I thought how can I ever make enough money to own an Avanti, especially from my vantage point atop either a John Deere tractor or combine many hours each day.

Even though I have old Corvettes, I wanted something 'different' that had 4 seats so two couples could go across town to dinner. I also wanted something that I could drive on a week end trip. Final criteria was simple, relatively cheap to maintain AND I could keep it running. I even discussed with my car buddies the various options of building up a such a car to meet my criteria.

I remembered the Avanti ! i had not seen one in years and never even rode in an Avanti. I researched them a bit and initially focused on R2. But, after looking at postings, I decided on the 1974 with 400 SBC and 700R4 tranny...I can keep this running without a hassel for parts.

My 1974 Avanti is a C-1 (56-62) Corvette with a back seat. King pin suspension, glass body, X-frame, SBC, GM powertrain...perfect !

I drive mine all the time, but I must plan an extra 45 minutes because someone is going to want to talk about it. The two conversations are always (1) 'what is that' with my history lesson to follow OR (2) 'that is an Avant ! my uncle Ted had one and I remember riding ...'

I guess my contribution to this thread is get them out and drive them, let people see your Avanti, talk to them.

Secondly, write magazine articles (with pictures) and send them to local newspapers and general car magazines such as Auto Enthusiast. Do not make them totally 'techie', tell the story of an Avanti trip, car event, the saga of a repair project. These magazines are always looking for stories and pictures. They love the non-professional real world stories...that is who the readers are.

Joe

Wow! your post is perfect! Your right, don't go wonkie on viewers, tell them of the rarity. How it was hand made in the USA. If they have questions...they'll ask. Just be there to answer. It works for me!

[Why?]

[quote n

Lucky you. Need more on the road. Mine is out everyday rain or shine. Leave the garage door open so passers by can see what a great car is the Avanti

ame='dapy' timestamp='1375801742' post='10247]

Lucky you. Need more on the road. Mine is out everyday rain or shine. Leave the garage door open so passers by can see what a great car is the Avanti ]And it is!! Leave you garage door open! Every glance is important! Like I've said before, we have to be seen, time after time, after time. We have to be seen. We have to embed ourselves into the public consciousness. Maybe then, we'll get the respect we deserve.

[Why?]

Came home from a kinda' crappy day at work. A little low until I came home and opened the garage door. There was my baby! I went upstairs and got the keys, fired it up and went for a nice ride...enjoying all the turning heads along the way!

[Took the '02 Avanti to a car show today...]

The Corvette club I belong to had an all-make car show today...it was sponsored by and held at the restaurant/tavern where we have our monthly meetings. I drove my '69 Corvette and my wife drove the '02 Avanti.

It was hot but not oppressive and I still had a good day with many friends. When it was time for awards at the end, there was one category in which there were no qualifying entries. I guess since a few weren't versed in Avantis this plaque was awarded for the car...

Best Foreign Car

Well...maybe they thought it was made in Canada.

Hey...It's recognition!

[Why?]

I've been fiddling with my battery for a week or so. Tried various forms of recharging...nuthin! Bought a new battery, starts right up! Time to take a drive! Storm clouds darken the sky, a little rumble of thunder in the distance. Doesn't matter...it's been too long not on the road! A tape in the deck, windows open, wind blowing through the cockpit. A complete driving pleasure. I just wish I knew how tell how wonderful it is driving this beauty!

[Why?]

We have to drive our cars to pique curiosity. Just like the person who I saw drive one so many years ago. The person whose car set the seed in my mind. I'll never know him, but the image of that beauty never left my mind. Now that I own one, it's stronger than ever. How many others, of the younger me are out there? We'll only know if we show!

[Why?]

Ok AOAI....I'm sure you're aware of the posts here. What do you think? What can you do to forward the Avanti cause, besides your high quality quarterly? We need to get the word out! We need to know that you are more than a history report! We DO have a future!!

[Why?]

Gunslinger has a good point. If you want to bring your car to the finest point...more power to you. You're efforts are worthwhile, and noble. But I think it's the design and the rarity that will bring them into the fold. I don't think the finer points will matter so much...at least not right now. If your paint isn't "true", if your radio isn't original...so what!! These things don't matter so much, yet.

[Why?]

I am willing to participate in a small working group to assist in outlining a program in this area and given a "small working group", I'm not sure a separate site is a necessity. I'd like to think that AOAI should be considered as the focal point for what we attempt as they have been the 'basis' for maintaining the Avanti name & interest since 1965. There'a a lot of info here and in the back issues of Avanti Mag, just not in a friendly format. Perhaps just a separate header in the Forum? Of course that will likely require some level of 'approval' from the ruling body. Being denied that, then perhaps going with the alternate plan.

My reasons for assisting in this is the difficultly I found in gaining rudimentary knowledge in what an original Avanti was! It seems the early years of AOAI was focused not so much on preservation and documentation as it was in finding ways to modify and keep your Avanti on the road. So, Number 1 on my list is: The lack of any "Formal Documentation" of what an original Avanti was and what a restored Avanti should be built to! When you go to "restore" a Corvette, you go to NCRS, buy the "Bible" for the year of car and simply follow the recipe book. With my Avanti, there were several cross country trips to visit owners of particular models who had cars that they were willing to share with me, allowing me photographs, Q&A time and just kicking back and discussing options. There was no Known Standard. Now, I'm not sure that it's even possible to 'document' an Avanti given Egbert's constant evolution design thought. Still it would have been nice to have had something more than just the Manual and people's opinion's to refer to and future collector's will want to have a reference manual that they can "goto".

The idea of building a Marque's interest is a study of time and time works or moves through cycles. I believe we are getting past the "Muscle Car" Fad again and will slowly turn back to a Design led interest. Just look back in time and see how the Ferarri market reacted in it's price swings. This comes from a few discussions I've had with different type's of collector's. We've seen the initial price spikes in muscle cars and the resulting return to earth. The Great cars get great money, the others are no longer all commanding 6 figure numbers but are still getting valued quite a bit higher than the Avanti. The other major influencing factor is the capital flow of funds into the US from Europe & Japan. Money is seeking a "safer"(relatively) and higher rate of return, hence our stock is climbing while Europe's and Japan's are not. As capital accumulates in an economy it seeks value and when soft investments become overpriced and the fear of inflation starts running through the markets, money migrates to harder assets like undervalued collectibles. In order to attract that Capital, we've got to present an investment that shows some rarity, value, an aesthetic nature and is desirable or envious(read subtley sexy). Loewy had some GREAT Quotes on just those items, they nned to be "Marketed".

I can be reach via email thru the personal messenger on this site.

There is a definite lack of information. Build sheets, invoices and the like are hard to come by, or just nonexistent. Maybe we can use this as a draw of mystery...probably not. Then again, there may be enough info to cover up for the lack of it!

[Why?]

I've used ALL 3! and it covers a wider swath of the Collector market. The higher end collector will likely need to understand more about Loewy and his design history to pump up his interest, while performance will be a tough sell because of a limited racing history.

The Studebaker Avanti is already a rare Model, the Design has been recognized by most in the automotive world as one of the most elegant and perhaps Loewy's Best work(although I do like the '53 too), performance has to be tied into Granatelli's achievements at Bonneville so people will listen to that point, of course it doesn't hurt to mention several road tests in '63 showed that the Avanti had a faster 1/4mi time than the '64 GTO and perhaps even showing some YouTube clips of Avanti's beating Mopar 440 6-packs @ PSMCD wouldn't hurt. I've just been able to download the "Bonneville Record Breaker" to my laptop and I intend to play it on my laptop while the car is on display at the next Show I'm at!. Also I found a company in LA that RENTS 20' enclosed car haulers so I don't even have to buy a car hauler now........that save's a few bucks..........now taking the car to shows all over The People's Republic of California is going to be open to me.

While the car is never going to be a CCCA Classic, it will start to develope the image that we are able to put forward(providing we all agree on what the key areas to highlight) if we show them enough times. You have to put the image in front of new viewers enough for them to accept it. I imagine that once people see and understand what the car is the first few will go after the Avanti II cars, because they're typically a little bit more affordable AND they have that Chevy drivetrain that most are used to and can easily get parts for...............the more adventureous will go after the R2's, then the R1's. I don't see (m)ANY current R3 owner's walking away from their prizes. The majority of those are in good hands with full restorations planned or underway and they will be the price leaders as several recent sales have shown. I was really hoping that #5642 would break 100K as that would finally break that glass ceiling and attract some attention.

The Rarity numbers are favorable for the Avanti, over it's 2 year production run only some 4650 were made vs 21K '63 Stingrays(10K split window coupe's) or 40K '63 Buick Rivieras. I don't know exactly the remaining numbers are but I imagine we can come up with a close approximation via the Registry numbers, same with R1 vs R2's, I know I've seen those numbers somewhere here or on SDC. Perhaps the museum has them instantly available.

I'm working on getting some automotive Posters on the Avanti made with my "sales Script" printed over a faint B/W photo of an Avanti @ Bonneville so more people can read about what I'm trying to display(and it'll save my voice).

Obviously this year being the 50th Anniversary of the design would have been the ideal year to put a 1000 Avanti's on Display, but it's a little late now. Frankly I'm very surprised that more shows didn't use a "50 Year Celebration of 1963 Automotive Design" concept. Someone(Hagerty?, Hemmings?) put out a mag earlier this year showing the Stingray, Avanti & Riviera on the cover, would've been a great show with just those 3 Models.

It was Hagerty. Although they weren't on the cover. There was a write up of all three vehicles. The 'vette was okay, the Riveria...meh. Ahh, but the Avanti!!!

[Why?]

A great idea! I think we have a rough idea of what we want. Recognition, so richly deserved. Appreciation of what we have, so long in coming. And at least equality with the "me too" cars. Although, we deserve more, I would settle for that. Let's work towards that end!

[Why?]

And not just THOSE cars!!!