Gunslinger
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Posts posted by Gunslinger
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In my '70 I found three buttons and switches in that area under the dash. In my case they were the emergency flasher switch, rear defroster switch and the driving lights switch. The driving lights were long gone from the car so the switch was there for no reason and not connected.
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R3's used a thinner motor mounts to gain clearance. I don't think the the drive angle was changed enough to make a difference, at least I've never heard of that being an issue. They also were given stiffer springs by the factory.
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Avanti Motors adapted regularly available parts from many suppliers to their cars...and sometimes on an as available basis. They used the Bendix brake booster as did Studebaker, but other car makers used Bendix as well. Again...just because the parts might look alike and they may fit the same, doesn't mean the internal valving, etc., is the same. The parts are built for specific cars and if interchanged, MAY cause problems. Then again, swapping them many improve things as well.
Just because many have found parts swaps from other makes to our cars out of good intentions or expediency, it doesn't automatically follow the result will be safe or perform as desired. That's what engineering is about. I have a couple of older Corvettes and as popular as they are, and as great as parts availablility is for them, especially compared to an Avanti, Vette owners talk about watching out for "Bubba" working on your car. There's a lot of "Bubbas" out there who try and fix or modify their car out of expediency or lack of good judgement and the car (and maybe you) suffers for it. I'm sure lots of "Bubbas" have worked on Avanti's over the years...my '70 showed it when I bought it. Undoing what "Bubba" did doubles your work involved in getting these cars right...fixing what he did then fixing it right.
Both Studebaker and Avanti Motors, though small companies, put a lot of effort into properly engineering their products correctly to the best of their abilities and finances. The Altman's in particular, put a lot of pride in their engineering for such a small company, but then again. Stude did most of the engineering prior to them. That being said, it still left a lot of engineering work to transition to the Chevy engine, Federal safety mandates, new transmissions, a sunroof, etc., as time went on and market conditions changed.
I don't believe they made changes without a lot of thought and design time. Sometimes they did adapt rather than redesign, but that was probably a matter of economics more than desire.
Any changes you make need to be well thought out to make sure it won't have a negative effect on the car's safety and performance. Sometimes making changes requires more changes and then a project can get out of hand and costs escalate out of control. A more powerful engine can require more powerful brakes, which can require different wheels to clear the new brakes, which require bigger tires for the new wheels, and the engine puts out more heat which require a bigger radiator...you get the picture.
There's nothing wrong with changing things and making improvements to a 30-40+ year old car. It's your car and your money. I'm just suggesting every change needs to be thought through. The law of unintended consequences can bite hard.
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Borg-Warner desgned automatic transmissions for several car manufacturers, or it's more accurate to say several car makers used B-W based automatic transmissions. Each was built to suit their particular engines with specific internals, bell housings, torque converters, etc. They may look similar externally, and may share a few internal parts, but won't interchange without problems showing up.
I imagine it might be easy to confuse them to someone only familiar with the Ford version, or possibly what AMC used. The Borg-Warner had a cast iron case and had no vacuum leads going to it like a GM Hydramatic would have. I believe the GM trannies had aluminum cases as well.
You said your transmission was a 2-speed unit. It does sound like you're describing the B-W Power Shift used in Studebaker Avanti's and Avanti II's until the end of the '70 model year. It is a 3-speed, but has a 2nd gear start in Drive. If you want it in first gear, you have to manually put it in first. Is that what you're experiencing? I never really understood the logic and reasoning behind that, but Stude and Borg-Warner must have had their reasons for it...or Stude specified it and B-W simply gave them what was specified.
There have been articles in back issues of AOAI on how to convert your Power Shift to first gear start. Maybe someone here knows what issue or can provide you with the information.
There is an Avanti registry on-line <www.theavanti.com/register.htm>. It's purely voluntary so there's no way of telling how accurate or complete it is.
As far as build records go, all records through about '87 or '88 are owned by Dan and Betty Booth of Nostalgic Motors. How difficult it would be for someone to go through them all and make some kind of data base I have no idea. No telling how complete those records are. It would also be an impossible task to determine how many are left and what changes have been done to them. When my RQB1574 is done, it will be very different from the car that left South Bend in 1970. Many, many Avanti's are far different cars from when they were new.
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The car is running its original 3.31 rear end...no fuel mileage yet as I don't have the car back from its body off recostruction yet. In fact, it got painted today.
When the speed shop that installed the new engine, fuel injection and transmission, they called in a transmission specialist who built the transmission to match the 3.31 rear, engine power curve and camshaft specs. The tech said the car should smoke the tires and still idle down the highway in overdrive.
After the body shop wet sands and buffs the car, they still have to reinstall all the trim, weatherstripping, glass, etc. After that it goes back to the speed shop for final tweaking then the upholstery shop for fitting of new door panels and carpeting.
I figure by the end of April or early May I'll have a new 1970 Avanti to drive and enjoy. It's been a long and bumpy road to get to this point, but I'm really looking forward to it.
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Thomas...
My guess, and it's just a guess by the "SWAG" method (Scientific Wild-Assed Guess), is since some have dimensional differences making swaps to 700R4 or 200R4's difficult, is maybe, just maybe, Avanti Motors made changes to the molds sometime during 1970 since they planned on transitioning to the GM transmissions anyway. I've never seen any documentation or reports to support my guess, but it does seem logical.
My '70 was assembled in August of '70, so it seems apparent that any modifications had to have been completed by that point since a 700R4 had no clearance problems when installed in my car. Mine is an RQB so maybe that is the starting point and not with the RQA's. From what information I have read the "B" models did institute a number of changes justifying a new designation. Maybe the changes to accept the GM transmissions was one of them.
The only other conclusion I can draw is that since there are dimensional differences between cars on its non-traditional assembly line, it's simply a car by car thing whether the tranny swap will create problems. While that might make some sense on RQA cars that came only with the B-W Power Shift or T-10 4-speed, it would create major headaches when Avanti Motors knew they were changing to GM automatic transmissions. That would introduce an intolerable situation on the assembly line modifying car bodies on an as-needed basis. It does seem far more logical they would change the molds to eliminate assembly line delays and tends to make be believe my first guess.
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I had a 700R4 installed in place of the B-W in my '70, and there were no issues with clearance with the tranny tunnel. The stock shifter was used but the linkages had to be fabricated. The speed shop tech also had to fabricate a different arrangement for a neutral safety switch and back up light switch as there wasn't clearance for the stock set-up. Since a different driveshaft was needed I went with an aluminum unit to reduce rotating mass. I used the shifter indicator dial from Nostalgia Motors for an automatic overdrive...you need the shifter housing as well since it is different. It's the same parts Avanti Motors used when they went to the four speed automatics.
The transmission support was not a problem. A new standard support was mounted on the frame in the appropriate place for the 700.
Other issues that had to be addressed were mainly due to my having fuel injection installed with cable operation instead of the stock linkages. The accelerator pedal mounted on the floor would not work as the angles were all wrong for cables. A Lokar accelerator pedal that mounts on the firewall was put in. It required a steel plate contoured to match the firewall be installed on the engine side of the firewall for mounting security.
This thread has wandered from the original question about a speedometer gear, but I wanted to address the concerns regarding installing a 700R4.
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Even though it uses a different torque converter, it's still the Borg-Warner Power Shift used in the Studes. I see no reason why the information in the shop manual on transmission service isn't applicable to your car. If you don't have the shop manual, you should have one.
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I agree...the car carrier has the liability of replacing the keys or fixing the problem in whatever way solves the problem. They took repsonsibility for the car's care from the time they picked it up until it was delivered to you.
Look over the sheet the driver filled out when he picked the car up. It should list the condition of the car with all scrapes, etc., and the number of keys it was sent with.
A locksmith can diassemble the door locks (a real PITA) and the ignition switch and make new keys. The glove box and console locks are not really able to be disassmbled due to the way they're made. You're better off finding replacements with keys. They pop up on Ebay regularly or you can buy used from any number of suppliers.
This is the problem of the trucking company to resolve...to your satisfaction. Hold them to it.
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Both heater hoses go to the water manifold on the front of the engine that the water pump bolts to. There are no water passages through the intake manifold.
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Ian Fleming owned a '63 R2 with Power Shift automatic. He insisted it be black in color. From what I've read, the South Bend people were apoplectic over that as black shows every flaw in the bodywork and paint. It eventually became an extra cost option to have that color due to the extra man hours in prepping the body and painting it. Fleming's car was allegedly the first Avanti painted black.
There was an article some time ago in Avanti magazine regarding which VIN Avanti was purchased by Fleming. There seems to be no documentation as yet discovered to show positively what car was his, so the research centered on the cars exported to England. Of the cars that were sent there, the article assumes the first R2 Avanti painted black sent to England was his, based on the assumption his was the first Avanti produced in black. It's likely so, but is still supposition until more positive documentation is found.
In the April 1963 issue of the British auto magazine Sporting Motorist there is an article on Ian Fleming and his Avanti. His British registration plate is "8 EYR". Maybe someone with access to Brit registration records can definitively find the car's VIN? BTW - the article also describes the car inaccurately as having a "turbocharger".
I don't remember the VIN identified as most likely belonging to Fleming. If I can find the right issue of Avanti magazine, I'll come back and post it.
This also begs the question...where is his car now? Ian Fleming died in 1964, so what ever happened to his car? Does anyone know? Maybe someone owns it and is completely unaware of its history?
That car would be sweet to own if provenance can be proven.
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When I had my '63, that plate was natural metal. I don't know if it's supposed to be colored-keyed or not. It didn't look like it ever had any color finish on it. If I remember, the screws were natural finish as well.
I'll be at York tomorrow as well. I guess we can look at any Avanti's there and get a sure answer to your question.
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The new website opened last week. Let's hope they keep it more current and informative than they have been in the past.
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As far as finding Corvette LT1 brackets, contact Dynamic Corvettes <www.dynamiccorvettes.com>. Their phone is 1-800-752-3188. I have two Corvettes and have found them excellent to deal with for parts. You might talk to them about the exhaust manifolds as well.
Another possible source for exhaust manifolds is Sanderson Headers. They make cast iron as well as tubular steel units and do custom work as well. Their headers are the best I have seen. They have the thickest flanges to keep bolts from backing out and causing leaks.
If it's Steve Blake you're talking about having a factory LT1, it would have had to have been a 1970-72 LT-1 fitted since Blake was gone from the Avanti scene when the newer LT1 came out in the '92 Corvette.
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I've seen a couple of numbers discussed...all less than a dozen. Maybe even no more than 3-6. I tend to believe the lower numbers as I've never seen photos identifying more than the same three cars...a coupe, a T-Top and a convertible.
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Thanks for the quick response. My entire front suspension was redone by the previous owner. I checked the steering box adjustment, and it would not tighten more than 1/4 turn, so I put it back where it was. There is a hydraulic steering damper attached to the center bell crank. Is this factory equipment, and if so, are they available?
This Forum is great!!
The hydraulic piston that looks like a shock absorber laid sideways is factory equipment. Occasionally you see them on Ebay, but outside of that, about all you can do is have it rebuilt with new seals. If it's not leaking and seems to be operating properly, you're just as well of leaving it alone.
If you want yours rebuilt, contact Jon Myers or Nostalgia Motors. They should be able to help you take care of that.
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When Studebaker built the Avanti, it was designated as Studebaker Model RQ. When the Avanti Motor Corporation was formed, they called the car Model RQ-A. About 1970 when some major upgrades took place (some due to government requirements), there were enough differences to require a model name change, thus the RQ-B.
These differences were either safety related, or appointment upgrades, or mechanical in nature. RQ-A models had low back bucket seats, the RQ-B's introduced high back seats. The RQ-B's had transistorized ignition made standard, some of the early "B" models had the Borg-Warner Power Shift transmission before transitioning to the GM Turbo-Hydramatic.
I've seen it reported that while the "A" and "B" models overlapped for a time, that Avanti Motors considered the "A" to be an "entry level" Avanti while the better appointed "B" model was the upscale version. That may only be promotional hype as government safety regs were making many of the upgrades mandatory anyway.
I'm not sure of the end number of the RQ-A, but I've read the RQ-B started at VIN #RQ-B1500. I don't know that for a fact, but have seen that in print. What the last RQ-A assembled might be I have not seen reported.
There's still a lot of unsubstantiated or unknown information about the cars and when certain changes were made. I have read reports that the first half-dozen or so RQ-B's still had the B-W transmission before the transition to the Hydramatic was made. I have RQ-B1574 which still had the B-W tranny when I bought it. If the "B" models started with RQ-B1500, than the idea that only a few were so equipped is incorrect.
It just goes to show that the full story of the Avanti and its running changes has yet to be uncovered and told.
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Anytime you change from or to DOT 5 fluid you have to completely flush out and dry the entire brake hydraulic system. Any mixing at all will create problems. In fact, most, if not all, manufacturers of performance cars specifically state not to put DOT 5 fluid in their products.
The seals won't suddenly fail...they have to already be wearing out. It would be a good idea to change all the seals if you've changed fluid types. Seals have to be kept lubricated. If the car isn't driven regularly, once a month or so simply pump the brakes and that will make the pistons move and keep the seals lubricated.
If you're having a rear brake locking up, it could be from a misadjusted brake shoe or from being soaked with brake fluid from the leaking wheel cylinder. Pull the rear drum and if any shoes are fluid soaked, all you can do is replace them. There's no getting the fluid out of them.
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You can get the parts you want for a round headlight conversion from Studebaker International. It's not listed in their catalog as a conversion, but simply as the '63 Avanti round headlight front panel. They also have the right and left headlight buckets for the round headlights.
The problem you'll likely have is locating good round headlight chrome rims and glass. I don't think anyone has NOS parts for that. You'll have to find some good used or possibly repro parts if any are available.
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In my '70 which is in the rebuild shop now, I'm replacing the front and rear lap belts with new lap belts in the rear and shoulder belts in the front. The "B" pillar already is threaded for a shloulder belt but has a plug covering it so it should make the install easy. Don't believe a Stude would be drilled and tapped this way, but it likely can be.
An upholstery shop can provide and install a belt system if you want. I ordered mine through SeatBeltPros.com. You have a several styles of buckles and a huge selection of colors to pick from.
If you plan on driving the car regularly, then shoulder belts are the way to go.
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I believe the Avanti II used the same opening in the bezel as Studebaker did. I have the faceplate out of my '70 since I had an Alpine CD player/stereo installed. I'm out of town right now, and if no one else gives you the dimensions first, I can early next week when I get home.
A good custom stereo installer or custom speed shop should be able to fabricate a bezel if need be to match your interior.
One thing you need to keep in mind is the size of the replacement radio behind the dash opening. Make sure it gives clearance for the speaker mounted above it.
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I don't know about master cylinder volume being a problem...never heard of that with these systems, but is the system fully bled of air? Also...would there be any chance of silicone DOT 5 brake fluid being mixed in with non-silicone DOT 3 or 4 fluid? That will create all kinds of problems...they simply do not mix. Look at the brake fluid in the reservoir and see if it looks cloudy or congealed...a sure sign of the wrong fluids mixed.
I would completely flush out the lines and calipers and make sure they are completely dry and use fresh fluid. Avanti Motors used silicone fluid at least since 1970 according to their advertising brochures. It's an easy mistake to make mixing silicone with non-silicone.
Most, if not all, performance cars specifically say do not use DOT 5 silicone fluid now. It aerates in hard maneuvering, causing a mushy pedal. Avanti's that use the screw-in brake light switch (the original type) that is not mechanical will have problems with silicone fluid.
I think many knowledgeable people now say to leave silicone fluid to museum cars and not cars you drive.
Hope you find your problem quickly and get it taken care of. Let everyone here know in case someone else runs into the same thing.
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If you do a websearch you should be able to find a copy of a Studebaker service letter that provides a factory approved location to mount the mirror at a higher spot for better rear vision. I've seen it before...it may be in a back issue of the AOAI newsletter, but hopefully it's on-line.
If you're really determined to mount the mirror low as it came from the factory, I'm sure someone here can give you the measurements you need.
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I think Andy Granatelli answers your concerns in his book "They Call Me Mister 500!" He discusses the problems they had when he took over at Paxton Products and the high failure rate of the superchargers. They found out that the problem was lack of quality control in matching up the planetary balls and all were not sized equally. When the superchargers were being assembled (all high quality parts), balls of slightly differing diameters were being installed together. Due to this, the larger balls were carry excess load and were failing prematurely due to excessive heat.
What you need to do is make sure all the planetary balls are precisley identical in diameter, even if it means having to replace them all to do so. I would also use a high grade synthetic fluid in the blower as it will handle the heat better than mineral based transmission fluid. I'd ask a speed shop for a recommendation of a good fluid.
Take care of your balls and they won't let you down!
SPEEDOMETER
in 1965-83 Avanti
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Thomas...
Congratulations on the easy repair. Everyone wishes things could always go so easily and inexpensively. Glad you got the copy of Gundry's book. It can be very helpful, as you've already found out.
If I spot you driving your car, I'll take you up on your offer for dinner. The same goes if you find your way out here to the east coast and you see a red '02 Avanti convertible or a '70 Avanti II in pearlescent cream...flag me down and I'll buy!
Take care.