ernier
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Posts posted by ernier
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Best thing to do is buy the parts manual. Most of the Serial number break points occur at 4892. You won't run into too many problems as most of the '64 specific changes center around a few trim items. Silver "S" vs. Gold for '63's in the "pirate buckle", parking light housings, front sway bar mounting, solid vs multi colored carpet, hood prop on passenger vs. driver, long battery vs. short, I could go on. Mechanically, the sway bar is the only thing I can think of at the moment.
Ernie R2 R5388
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I installed my headliner while I had the glass out of my car some years ago. When I did the front part I glued up insulation first and then the headliner. Doing that resulted in a couple of spots that "bubbled". The headliner is flexible but it wanted to go back to it's originally flat state. What I eventually did was lay the headliner on the top of a garbage can allowing the ends to droop. I glued the insulation to the drooping headlliner and then glued the assembly to the roof. It's been up there 6 years now.
The shop manual says you need to remove the rear glass to do the rear section. Because the replacement headliner is thin and flexible I believe it can be coerced into place under the side roof upholstery and then under the rear glass' weatherstrip once its up. Depending on the year you would need to cut either 1 or 2 notches in the headliner to clear the trim screws and hold downs.
If you did just vinyl would you be attaching directly to the roof?
Ernie R2 R5388
Share the tips!!
My front piece came out pretty solid, which is why I thought about steaming it.
I just dont know how I can generate enough steam to do anything! Also, will
it have memory and just go back to the way it was?? I am not too concerned
with it looking factory, so I have considered bonding some thick vinyl to the
roof and calling it good. I am curious though how your install went....
Tom
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The rotors for the Turner set up seemed to be available everywhere. My parts guy had to get them from a local wharehouse but that was still a same day deal. The grinding on the calipers is a little node that may serve a purpose in the original casting or on the assembly line, my guess if you did have a defective caliper no one would know it's missing. The pads I use are from Hawk, at the time my son was doing CAD design for a company called "Racing Brake" and they came highly recommended from lots of their customers, and I don't remember them having the wear sensor. The calipers are the same as the ones on my El Camino and if I'm not mistaken the same as a GN Regal. Both of those vehicles are heavier than the Avanti so combined with the master I have from some huge Chrysler I felt I had enough braking capacity.
Surely, if we were to be constantly in a situation where repeated high speed stops were the norm bigger would definately be better. For the street use my car and lots of other Avantis experience I think the benefits of 11" vs. 12" would be nil. A kit like Jim Turner's that is simple to install and is relatively cost efficient is all most Avanti owners need. Combine that with his customer service and for an Avanti owner wishing to improve their car's braking with the least amount of hassle I believe Jim Turner's are the way to go.
The work done on your brakes is impressive, for sure, and looking at Nimesh's Baer setup I do have "caliper envy". But for me, my Turner front brakes and my drums in the rear do the job.
ErnieR
The larger the diameter rotor, the more effective surface area you have per
each revolution of the tire. Studebaker discs were good in the day, but the
brake fade is the enemy. I was trying to develop something that could use
parts from a production run of a model, not just one or two years. Studes
disc brakes ended up on the REAR of Jags by the late 60s/early 70s. The
Turner 11 inch setup uses a rotor for a lighter car, the late 60s Mustang. It
is on par with the GT 11 inch rotor, though the caliper is larger on the newer
design. This allows the use of a larger pad, and an optional two piston. I
did some testing with a Gtech and got a 148 stop from 60. I am not totally
positive I had the Gtech setup right, but the numbers fell between a 65 GT
roadrace Mustang (144 feet) and another 65 Mustang with 13" Baer brakes
at each corner (155 feet) so I didnt keep trying to see what I could get down
too. I did notice that the MORE I tried stopping, the faster/better it stopped.
Keep in mind our Avantis arent exactly lightweight! (I used 3500 pounds).
I havent had a chance to test the 13" Cobra setup yet, the Avanti has been
down for the last few months with a broken power steering and other projects
have taken priority. I will post the latest results when I have them.
In my opinion, unless you are going for a stock rebuild, ditching the Stude
setup is worth while, at 175 dollars a rotor, and 110 each for wheel cylinders
(4 per car) that is certainly not the cost effective route - ending up with late
50s technology European brakes.
FYI, I priced the Turner rotors on Autozone's website last year, they were a
special order item and around 95 dollars each. If you found them cheaper
thats a good thing! Did you buy the modified calipers from Turner, or grind
the housing yourself? Also the brake pads, did you buy his special modified
ones or cut the wear tab off and grind it down yourself? Reading Turners
website I thought it was odd he didnt design his brackets to use "off the shelf"
parts, I hate voiding product warrenties.
Tom
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Somewhere in another thread is discussion on headliners. I don't think you'll find any way to repair it without removing it and once it's removed you will need to replace it. It's made of a fiberglass insualtion type material. It crumbles and is no longer able to support its own weight. The hard plastic(?) replacements look identical, clean easily and with some patience and a few dirty words can be put up without removing the back glass as is required with the original. I've got a few tips for anyone taking the plunge.
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The turner installation was very easy, I gathered my parts, rotors were under $60 each BTW, but Iif I had to do it all over again I would just buy the whole thing from Jim. Took only a couple of hours to do. There have been issues cited with SteelTech's customer service and I can't imagine needing any more brake than the Turner front disc and the drum rear.
I recently read a road test on a 74 Avanti II. With the factory set up the road testers recorded 60-0 in 140 feet on 70's tire technology. So, a properly set up stock system provides some credible performance and unless your car is experiencing poor stopping characteristics you may feel the whole thing wasn't worth the effort. My car did not stop well, the rotors were too thin and heated up quickly and subsequently caused the brakes to fade on high speed stops. But the cost of new rotors would have come close to the Turner kit and the subsequent sale of my stainless sleeved calipers and hardware pretty much paid for the upgrade so I took the plunge.
Bigger is not always better...after you lock them up it's all tires and suspension. Unless you're planning on doing some road racing the disc/drum set up will serve you well, and front brakes designed to stop 4700 lb station wagons may be overkill on a 3500 lb car, IMHO.
Ernie 64 R2
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You should be able to lock and unlock with the key. Sometimes a little pull on the handle while turning the key will get the tumbler to the right spot. My key will come out no matter what direction the tumbler is turned but unless it's removed when the tumbler is straight up and down the door will not be securely locked. Meaning, a little jiggling of the handle and the door can be opened. I know on the driver's side the door is locked by moving the tumbler to the rear of the car then centering it and removing the key. I generally lock the passenger door from inside but I can go out to the garage and verify the direction to turn the key if you want.
Ernie R2 R5388
I took the passenger lock unit off the door last night and cleaned it up real good. It was filthy to say the least. In the process of cleaning it, I was able to see how it works. After lubricating all the moving parts, I put the lock back in. Now I can unlock the passenger door from the outside. I still can't lock it but I don't think that the lock is designed for that (I may be wrong of course). I can lock it from the outside by depressing a small metal tab on the end of the door near the large metal cone shaped thing and at the same time flipping the lock lever on the door. Then when I close the door, it is locked. Maybe this is the way it is supposed to be. I don't have an owner's manual and the shop manual doesn't explain how the locks work.
Anyway, I can lock the door when I get out and open it with the key. So, it is better than before.
Tonight I will clean and lube the driver side lock mechanism!
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The side chrome hockey sticks are held in with push in clips. Pry directly under the clip as best you can because the are only mounted in cardboard.
Ernie R2 R5388
I am trying to access the trans. cooling hose for the center console. In order to do this I need to remove the chrome trim and the carpet from the side of the console near the firewall. I have removed the screws in the carpet but what is holding the trim in place?Thanks for any help
Tony
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if you really have r3/r4 gaskets they will not work. Dave Thiebault was my source for the intake gaskets. I recommend the composite style over the metal, with new metal I still had intake vacuum leaks.
Re: the tires are much like clothing, a personal expression. Tom's general assesment is correct except that I don't experience a floaty ride or numb steering response with my 75 series tires. In fact the car is quite comfortable and handles about as good as I want it too. I have an El Camino with 17x45 series tires and I have to run fairly low pressures to make the ride tolerable.
The Avanti rides stiffly enough for my tastes. Also, if you are going to drive your car in any weather other sunny and balmy, the big fat tires leave a lot to be desired. Forget any driving in snow and be careful starting and accelerating out of corners in the rain. I'm in NJ and have driven my Avanti a few times in teaming rain and had very minimal hydoplaning with the skinny tire.
ErnieR
thanks gents, if tires are a personality thing i guess im in trouble. i would like to go the lean wide and mean . but maybe id better buy a good overall tire first.then move to performace. i have tires that are oringinal size. over 32years old. its snowing here today, i thought this weather was behide us in northern illinois. good thing i cut the grass last night. tom i have some pictures to show you. this year over the winter i finished the distrib. cover, thanks for the pictures and the measurments. i also built and installed an on board charging system. it looks sweet. i would like to show it to the masses but i havent figered out how to add pictures. i will email you if you like, John.gadd@grainger.comps thanks ERNIER i am set up to pull the intake and block off the exhaust cross over in the intake, good tip about replacing the hold down clamps. i noticed that when i ordered the intake gasket i got one for a r3/r4 is this the same as a r2?
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my research led me to choose 215/75/15 because they were the closest in overall height to the 6.70 15 that the car came with originally. I have the 15x6 rims, not the TW offerings but the same wheels none the less. Ride, steering response and overall stability improved over my original radials with stock wheels and the 15x6 wheels.
TireRack is a good way to research sizes. IMHO, if you like the stock look the p215/75's are the way to go. They fill the wheel well nicely and don't protrude from the well.
I seen in turning wheels and ad for steel rims 15x6 . has any one bought these from bob helm? are they new? i need to put some new tires on my 64 r2 . after reading many web articals over the years. i am confused with what will be the best fit some say 215-70r-15, some say 215-65r-15 an some say 235-60-r15 on the rear. and others have said p205-75r-15 their has been many charts and pub. all with good and bad opitions.
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The plastic covers don't look too bad but the one I got would not stay on with the clips and I ended up using two chrome, interior sheet metal screws. I think they mis-calulated the arc of the clip retainers. The outer ones would not allow the clips to lock in the holes. There was also quite a bit of trimming necessary but it will cut with sharp scissors..
The problem with the originals is the deteriorating foam which in turn cause the clip retainers to pull out. I imagine a company like Just Dashes could repair it, figure big $$$.
I'd be happy to send a picture of the plastic one installed if you want.
Ernie R2 R5388
My car's rollbar cover fell off (bad clips jury-rigged by a previous owner) and while reattaching it I cracked the padded plastic finish.Any replacements (fawn) out there?
Or do you recover it with vinyl?
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The blocked crossovers are the simplest most effective way to stop the heat build up under the carb. The things you are suggesting are kind of like turning your home heat up to the max in the summer and then running your air conditioner to cool things down. Taking the intake off is a breeze on the Stude, no coolant or distributor issues to deal with. Also I would suggest getting new hold downs before you do it. The old oriiginals will crack and not snug the manifold down properly.
The air from the supercharger is warm because it's compressed, not so much because it picks up conducted heat. I thought about an intercooler but I was advised, properly, that they work only with much higher boosts and would hurt rather than help.
Check to make sure your heat riser is not closed, also. I would eliminate it completely myself.
Ernie R2 R5388
quote name='gadd zooks' date='Mar 22 2007, 10:14 AM' post='2556']
I bought intake gastets from si, I did here about blocking the crossover runner. i though it was a great idea.
i even thought about a carbon diaoxide setup to cool the carb and the fuel suppy.
what about a supercharger oil cooler?
i know it not rockship building.
It's
just anti prade traffic imbarsement. -
You must have a Powershift and while it feels like a 2 speed it is indeed a 3. The Powershift is designed to start in second unless the pedal is mashed to the floor. I don't know of any 2 speeds used in AMC cars, they did have a version of the BW that is virtually identical to the Powershift. It would be unlikely that you have an AMC trans in that the changes necessary to adapt it would far exceed the trouble to rebuild the existing trans, should that occasion have arisen. I have attempted it, I know first hand what has to be done.
My 64 R2 has a 700R4, the changes to the tunnel are not visible fom the inside and are in the same area as a factory hole for band adjustment on the Powershift. Adapting a GM trans to your car would be a "piece of cake" and likely less involved than the Gear Vendor addition. As far as TV cable adjustment, there are kits that make it very simple. Add the Gear Vendor to a 4 speed automatic and you have an interesting combination, 8 speeds available, right?
Re: your original question, though. Replace the plastic gear and the cable. Sometimes the tips of the cable wear or break and while you can see the cable turning when it's disconnected once it's connected to the speedo it doesn't do the job. The plastic gears are plastic so they will break instead of the trans gear, don't waste your time going into the trans to fix the speedo.
I've spent a lot of time making my 700R4 swap work like it should. If you or anyone else has questions feel free to ask. My car shifts like an 80's Corvette, gets 20+ on the highway and is quiet enough to listen to the radio at less than full blast ( although I still do, on occasion ). Here's a picture of a correct TV set up on an Edlebrock carb that I adapted for use on my R2.
GENTLEMAN -Continue to 'wander away' from the original question as much as you want. This is most informative. One of the first things I looked into when I discovered/bought this car in December, was replacing the trans with a 700R4 - but some initial measurements on the tunnel, and the transmission, showed that there were going to have to be some serious modifications to be made.
Also measured the 200R4 in my El Camino, and it came up a little on the large side.
My vehicle is titled as a '70', but the build date was Sept. 69 - which may account for the physical differences in the trans tunnel - who knows? ? ? ?
Thanks again for all the useful information. I would be happier with an OD trans, but unfortunately live in an area where you can count the people competent enough to do the 'complete' job right on 3 fingers. And they stay busy all the time, and it would be a project that would be worked in when they have a spare moment or two. That would result in the car being tied up a minimum of 6 weeks - and that is not going to happen just yet. I am having ENTIRELY TOO MUCH FUN driving this thing. And answering peoples questions as to "what kind of car is that".
So far the guesses have been -
7 - Avanti [5 of which were women]
4 - Ferrari
2 - Jaguar
1 - Aston Martin
1 - Jensen Healey
2 - Maserati
1 - "Well it kind of looks like a Valiant from the back"
2 - "That James Bond car"
1 - Vespa
2 - "I don't know what it is, but it was made in Canada"
And my favorite "some kind of customized Cobra" - this was in part due to my having the "Belligerent Rabbit" on its yellow background - from Shelbys 'TERLINGUA RACING TEAM' as the center insert on my Magnum 500 rims, and on the valve covers where the Chevy logo would normally be.
GUNSLINGER, TOM, WAYNEC - thank you again - you have made the OD trans swap sound more appealing, and I shall do some re-measuring in case it is a swap I might consider this winter.
Thomas
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There are a few things I've done to my car that go in the 10 best file and close to the top is permanently blocking the exhaust crossover. I welded in some 3/16 plates but solid intake gaskets with a block off plate for a brand "X" will work. The car drives in 90+ like it was 65 degrees. You will solve your hood clearance problem without the mount changes which might create other issues, my exhaust manifold hitting the steering box for example.
And on the R2 cold weather driving doesn't suffer because the air coming from the blower is warmed. In fact, mine doesn't even have a choke! I removed the plate and I drive my car in all temperatures as ling as there is no snow or ice on the ground. A side benefit, the fiber replacemant intake gaskets seal better than the steel and you might notice a better idle and improved drivability because you sealed some intake vacuum leaks that the old steel gaskets allowed.
Ernie R2R5388
thank you guys, i looked at the manual last night and found the section on drive shaft angle check and how to adjust. when i change the mounts i will check to spec. Stiffer springs on the front? interesting! the hood insulation is a pain just a rat nest, but getting all the old glue was even a bigger pain. im looking to gain more hood clearence because i added the heat intisapator under the carb to help stop the heat from boiling the carb in chicago traffic. it helped but i noticed some rubbing just a little. i will try the gasket in stead of a o ring to see i get a lil clearence too. was the al. intake manafold a aftermaket or and opt.
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Here's where my El Camino lives...or the Avanti if the Elky is getting worked on.
. The bubble is great if you can seclude it on your property. It is not very attractive inflated. My wife says it loks like the Hindenburg landed in our driveway. It is a bit of a pain to open and close but the car comes out exactly as you put it in. About $600 but a good cover is $250+ and the bubble looks like it will last a long, long time. Very heavy weight reinforced vinyl.
I've had an Avanti specific indoor cover for years now and have had a few different outdoor covers for the less fortunate rides. NOAH's been pretty good for northeast weather and it's heavy enough not to blow off every time the wind kicks up. I have another style on a Duster but I can't remember the name. It was fairly expesnsive, very light weight and VERY water resistant but I have to Bungy it all over to keep it on.
ErnieR
Stored, Lets see. Three Avanti's.
SUV,Conv Van & Sport bike. One two car garage. 
Some thing staying outside. 
And its not the Twin. Invested in one of those 10x20 car covers. that way all of the Avantis are covered. 
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Those frames rust faster than hog troughs. I have an 84 El Camino and while the frame is OK there spots where the mounts are located that have enlarged to a point that I needed to put big washers under the new body mounts so they wouldn't just fall through the frame. The rear "horns" rust out first. Very important to flush out any mud. The frames are very weak.
Ernie R2 R5388
NEVER - and I have the rust to prove it! Car is driven daily in Wisconsin in all kinds of weather. My car is an '88 and I have some important news for you '87-'88 owners WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM or will soon. A fellow member (who will not be identified until he permits it) has removed the body from the monte carlo chassis because the side mounting mating steel piece (I don't know what you call it) BUT there are 3 body bolts on each side (not including 2 in front & 2 in back) basically it was all rusted-out, the bolts were GONE! I would think this would be the very first instance where body was removed on a Kelly Avanti. And we thought "I ain't got no hogtroughs - I'm in good shape". Probably just the opposite I'm afraid.
Bill D
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My car had short mounts in it when I bought it. The left side exhaust manifold would hit the steering box with them installed. I agree that the driveshaft angle will not be affected
The hood pad that I bought had a hole in the center but I had to elongate it to make room for the hose. The R2's have a problem. Because of an adapter for my 700R4 trans linkage I can't even run a normal width gasket under the bonnet. I use a flat "O" ring from a GM trans to act as a gasket.
Ernie R2 R5388
question: I am changing the motor mount to gain hood clearence. i bought the mounts from SI.by changing then will it throw off the drive shaft angle. more than tolarance. when they went from r2 to r3 what did they do to gain hood clearence. I also bought the hood insulation, the old one had a hole in it where the supercharger bonnet is. The new doesnot, do you recomend i copy the old.
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If your talking about the weatherstrip that looks like a squeegee that rests up against the glass on the outside you may be able to replace it without removing anything but the old weatherstrip. It all depends if you can get the old one out clean. The new one just slides into the chrome. I've taken my new one in an out a couple of times sliding it out and sliding it in.
ErnieR
As far as whether you need to do the interior or the weatherstripping first, I think you can take your choice. The weatherstripping is cemented to painted surfaces on the door jambs and doesn't interfere or overlap with upholstery or carpeting in any way, as best I can remember.Yes, I wondered about another way to replace the outer door to window seal, too. I could not see another way to do it. So I pulled the window out, following the shop manual directions. It really wasn't too bad a job and gave me the opportunity to do a little clean up and lubrication on the window related parts that you would not otherwise have much access to.
Sounds like you're really on the home stretch, with the hard parts behind you. Best of luck.
Pete
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Thanks Ernie. I'll pull the wiper motor and check the park feature. Jim
you don't need to pull the motor it's accessible from the top cover.
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Did the problem just start on its own or did something get replaced first? Sounds like the park feature may be out of adjustment or something is grounded that shouldn't be. I don't have a wiring diagram that would be easy to scan and read but if you don't have a shop manual with the diagram inside it wouldn't be a bad investment.
Ernie R2 R5388
I'm new to the list and wondering if anyone has a wiring diagram for a '63 Avanti? My wipers are on slow speed when I turn on the ignition switch and cannot shut them off unless I unplug wires from the wiper switch. I found a new wiper switch and have the same problem. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Jim -
Are the calipers installed so the bleeder screws are at the top? If not there may be air trapped at the high point that cannot be bled out. Doubtful the volume is a problem. The calipers don't completely drain back into the master so the fluid in the master is really pushing on fluid already in the lines and in the caliper.
Ernie R2 R5388
I'm new to the forum. Installed the Steeltech 12" kit on the front and the rear disk system on the back of my '78 Avanti II. My mechanic (Air Force moved me mid project) can't get the calipers to engage until the pedal is nearly bottommed out. He thinks the stock Master Cylinder doesn;t have enough volume to engage fully activate the pistons.Any ideas? Is there a different Master Cylinder to try?
Starting to grasp at straws!!
Thanks for any help!!
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I don't think your wasting money on an Avanti II. Any future Avanti purchases will be non-Stude for me. In fact, if I had it to do all over I would probably gravitate toward an early Avant II over my 64 R2.
Hello Folks...Rick Stratton...I've definately been bitten by the Studebaker bug, I'm closing on a house here soon and I want to treat myself to an Avanti..I'm looking at whats for sale out there, Turning Wheels and have yet to look at this site..I know that I will pay 20K for a nice 63-64, there is a 71 Avanti II for sale much cheaper, appears to be a mechanically sound GM 350/350, easier,cheaper and more performance combo. But, it is a really funky color/interior combo olive green and gold crushed velvet. The fellow is pricing it really affordable because he knows its funky..I'm feeling like a cheapskate because I'm attracted to the price? am I throwing my money away? am I better off going for the 63 20K Paxton, auto, no AC?.....Rick -
I used 3M Bedding Compound. I did this job some years ago and have had no leaks develop. I don't check this forum often if you have any questions and want to email me directly, feel free.
erizzolo@earthlink.net
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I've never ordered from Mr. Stone but I've learned that each vendor seems to be better for certain items than others. I had a nightmare problem with the rear window gasket, SASCO finally came up with one that fit. Same vendor that supplied the bad gasket has provided me with other excellent items.
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I have just purchased a set of the wider steel wheels for my 1963 Avanti, as advertised by the vendor in "Turning Wheels". I want to put a set of P205 tires on the car. My question.....does the P205/75R15 profile tire best match the original Avanti tire height, or would the P205/70R15 be closer in profile height? Thanks, John in Wisconsin
P215/75 R15 is the closest match, I run Pirelli P400's look right on the car and the Tire Rack price was very reasonable.
Is it a 63 or 64?
in 1963-64 Avanti
Posted
At some point a change was made from a mount that looked like a long bolt (earlier) to a more solid mount to the frame. The "S" in the plastic part of the Pirate Buckle on earlier cars was gold and then later changed to silver.
Good thing is that there are only a few things to be concerened about and those transition cars make for some great conversation and history.
Maybe when you receive the original build sheet you'll find the car that you thought was an R1 was originally manufactured as an R2!! That's what I learned about my car.
Ernie R2 R5388