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Geoff

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Posts posted by Geoff

  1. I hear the argument about shifting the power band, and having a car that's no fun around town. That is exactly why Honda stroked the 2L to 2.2L in their S2000 from one generation to the next. You literally had to beat the snot out of the 2L car just to get it to move. Small displacement cars need what I'm about to jump into, gearing.

    With the Studebaker V8, one could play musical chairs between transmission, wheel size, and differential gears to find the Goldilocks zone resulting in a fun driver. Tremec's T-56 has a couple different gear sets. Some have a 0.50 6th gear, which would reduce 4.56 differential gears to 2.28 for relaxed cruising, while pulling through the lower gears quickly. Richmond has a 6 speed box where 1st is 3.27 and 5th is the direct drive gear. There must exist a combination of parts allowing a wild engine to be docile in urban traffic.

    I kinda like the higher pressure idea also; lower the static compression ratio and increase the boost pressure.

  2. We're all pretty aware the Studebaker V8 doesn't have 'acreage' to stretch out its bore. Stroke is a little flexible here but a large increase would go against what I'm about to suggest. What if somebody built a Studebaker V8 with a flat plane crank? Other changes would have to be made as this alters the firing order, so the camshaft and a few other details would change. I was talking to my dad about this not long ago, and the funny/ironic thing about that was, a few days later my uncle suggested the same thing on a phone call with my dad; there seemed to be a common message carried on the ether's wavelength.

    A flat plane crank is more rev happy, perhaps a lightened aluminum flywheel would complete the "let's spin it to the moon" ensemble? Since big cubes are out of the question, why not regularly spin what can be made to [8000, 8500, 9000, …] as a means to make power? And probably some glorious tunes.

  3. I'm hoping so. My goals are to make that area lighter and more durable (stronger and rust resistant). The torque boxes are known rust items and I don't want to rely on scheduling repairs every so often.

    I will mount a belly pan to the bottom of my frame and I'll be storing my car circa Thanksgiving, bringing her back out circa Tax Day each year but I have heard how labor intensive it is to remove and replace torque boxes. I don't mind spending more time on it once and being finished with it.

  4. I found an update to this inquiry. Here's the Targa Tasmania Avanti's frame. I notice those extensively modified mounts. I even see some tabs amended outside of the 'driveshaft valley' on the X.

    I'm leaning towards tearing down and rebuilding my car on a Titan rotisserie; I have this internal monologue speaking to me about working smarter not harder. Other tasks are at the top of my list but I hope to be at the frame modding stage later this summer.

    67QA0151x07112018j.jpg

  5. Yeah, look at the "self clearancing" the crank pulley did to the steering rod. I may brighten the image more and really showcase that canyon.

    You're not going to get that engine much lower. Also, increasing crank pulley diameter to spin the blower faster is not an option.

    Here, I found other pictures I took that may show more vividly than just tweaking the RGB & HSV levels in the above image.

    IMGP0806 cropped.jpg

    IMGP0811 cropped.jpg

  6. I know but I won't give the answer; instead I will post an enormous visual clue. "I spy, with my little eye."

    This was during my first prolonged visit to Maine, summer of 2012. It was the first year my dad and I started repairing my 10/1997 wreck. A couple casualties of that are also visible.

    GOPR0106 for web.jpg

  7. On 1/22/2023 at 9:38 PM, Nelson said:

    … I have a tendency to believe the 1/8 stroker story as it would improve sprint times but that also makes the story of 8000 rpm less plausible. …

    I definitely hear your performance concerns. When Andy said eight thousand RPM, my dad said his jaw dropped and he nearly hit the floor. Andy said it was at that RPM the supercharger was providing quite a bit more power, enough to run down 426 (probably max wedge) equipped MoPars in 1/2 mile drags.

    In the 1970s when my dad and uncle were driving the car, I heard they wound the tachometer past the 6 until the needle pointed somewhere between the M and P (the Dixco half sweep was gone, either before or during Bill Alderman's ownership). They knew 7000 was possible (I presume from the HR article) but never thought that 8000 was.

    Lately when my dad had been sharing the phone conversation, he was reminding people that Andy had a whole shop and various Studebaker parts at his disposal; Andy may not have worried too much if RS1021 grenaded.

    RS1021's heads are ported, polished, and flowed, and I hear there are triple valve springs, those coiled in the opposite direction. It wouldn't surprise me if Andy was really beating the tar out of that car. Since centrifugal SC love more revs, more revs is what that particular car saw.

    By the time I was driving it in the middle 1990s, the internals were tired and valve float would start north of 5500. I only barely kissed 6000 in 2nd on a freeway one time the whole time I had the wheel. Therein contains my desire to build an R1025 clone, except with a manual trans. When the new owner gets the engine torn down, I would love a machinist to fill in ALL of the blanks.

  8. I've only heard what my uncle and dad have said. They had a handful of discussions with Vince Granatelli over the years, and my dad had one phone call with Andy.

    I can let go of anything at the drop of a hat; although I am interested in getting to the hard and firm truth of 25's history. It was Andy's car and he used it on the drag strip. Andy also said 25 held a class record for Riverside in half-mile competition. Vince said 25 was the fastest accelerating car they had at their disposal.

    Now the daunting task becomes, what exactly did 1025 do? Why exactly did Paxton punch the stroke to 3.75"? How much of what Vince and Andy had said is true? I'll keep my eyes and ears open for the new owner's findings.

  9. Okay, true. Andy misremembering and aging can be a factor in the confusion. However, Andy took a guarded approach on said phone call and asked some challenge questions. My dad mentioned 1025 had evidence of a tire fire in a rear wheel well (I forget at the moment LR or RR but this evidence remains) and Andy confirmed it was the car he was thinking of.

    1025 had a Dixco halfsweep 8k tachometer strapped to the steering column because the factory 6k tachometer wasn't good to read to 8k RPM. I'm sayin', 1025 was drag raced by Andy to beat 426 MoPars at Riverside in half-mile competition. I'm also sayin' magazine tests like Hot Rod aren't out of the question.

    RS1021 has an 'A' number associated with it, ergo it is an A-series R3. The heads also received the CC stamp from Paxton and the two banks are off equivalency by two-tenths of a CC.

    Uh, Andy's wife could have had an Austin Healey, or a Corvette, or a Catalina, or a Skylark, or a Meteor, or a … Especially since 1025 was technically owned by Vince Granatelli (name on bill of sale) but in the phone call Andy said, "Vince's car? No. That was my car!" So no, Mrs. Andy Granatelli didn't take 1025 to the grocery store.

    1025 was run like a raped ape down drag strips, sometimes spun to 8,000 RPM, and still has scars to show for it.

  10. I'm confused about these claims for 1016. Why did Andy Granatelli say to my dad, "No, that was the one we stroked" when discussing RS1021 (the engine in 1025). Andy's reasoning behind the stroking being to give better low end power to loan out to magazines for testing at the drag strip.

    That was the day's thinking. Big bore & short stroke was the 'spin it to the stratosphere' build for high rev power, so a longer stroke was thought to equate to a boost in the lower rev range.

    My dad had a personal experience with the Paxton blower seizing, and it flipped the belts when he had it as a daily driver in the 1970s. Luckily nothing got ingested though artifacts made it into the pressure box but that's where they remained. Afterward he had the blower sent to Santa Monica for a rebuild.

  11. 17 hours ago, Nelson said:

    Geoff. Not sure where you get “ the fact it was a manual R4” ? Do you know aomething I don’t.? 

    Nope, just that it was built as a manual car, and Paxton later installed an automatic and an R4. They were testing something interesting there.

  12. 1016 may have some interesting history to it, the fact it was a manual R4 is interesting for sure! I'm going to put myself on the side that 25 was the Hot Rod car. Andy himself said he used 1025 to beat 426 Mopars in 1/2 mile competition, and that he needed 8,000 RPM to do so. He also said 25 held 1/2 mile drag class records at Riverside.

    Two points regarding the belts flipping and under hood damage.

    1. 1025 had a color change in the early 1980s when it was stripped, primed, and then painted. A lot of imperfections were corrected at that time. Body filler was used to fill in a large divot (which would hold water) in the roof. Filler was also used to fill a gap beneath the passenger (IIRC) door. My dad said when he got 25, you could fit your hand between the rocker and the door, and grab the bottom of the door. Let's hear it for Molded Fiberglass not using jigs to assemble the first batch of cars, right?
    2. About Avanti supercharger belts flipping. That could have been an issue with any supercharged Avanti getting drag raced at high RPM without a discovered fix applied. It is quite possible this is a "when" issue, not an "if" issue. When did any B5 generation Audi S4 swallow their turbochargers' impellers? It wasn't just a one car problem; given certain conditions, all of them could. Stay away from known conditions, or have the required turbocharger fix, and they're suddenly not hungry for turbo vanes.
  13. Or … not.

    1016 was built as a 4-speed. I referenced Bob Johnstone’s page.

    1025 was built as an automatic. Hot Rod Magazine tested an auto, they even went so far to print the gearbox’s ratios: 2.40, 1.47 & 1:1 if memory serves me.

  14. So Ed: bore squared × stroke × cylinders × (pi/4).

    5/8" additional on top of the 3.625" would be 4.25" of stroke. I did read of a Granatelli stroked Studebaker crank out to 4 1/4" on a website, but forgot to bookmark or take a screen capture. This was back when I was researching the required stroke to punch a 289 out to 299 without any overbore.

    [bores across top, strokes down left side, cubic inches at intersections]

    391579786_Studebakerboresandstrokes.png.40cf2602c83a631400a348dbe5cd6abb.png

  15. The originals were fiberglass. I recall fixing 1025 from my 1997 oops. My dad and I were into actual "white fiberglass" in many sections. The problem was trying not to use FRP for the fix, because so many people and places sell later Avanti parts.

    I think Avanti started with FRP about the time other marques started with FRP, think other "plastic fantastics" like C4 Corvette and Fiero. Although I think late C3 Corvettes utilized FRP too. FRP has fiberglass in it (that's the F), it just contains other things.

    Then there's SMC resin, which also contains fiberglass. This is the resin with the release agent contained, so body panels can be quickly stamped, formed, and released.

    https://www.ensignautobody.com/car-talk/2016/12/30/fiberglass-smc-carbon-fiber-and-beyond
    https://careertrend.com/facts-7762808-smc-fiberglass.html

  16. I have a question and then a clarification.

    Does 1016 have the standard +0.060" overbore?

    Per the Granatellis, "An R3 is anything we say is." After all, it was their shop creating R3s from Studebaker engines. They stated RS1021 became an R3. Vince got in touch with John Hull, urging him that the story of R3 isn't complete without including 25.

  17. I agree, that is some great research that has been uncovered. I now have more questions and wish Andy G. was still around. I wonder if Andy liked the R3 development and just wanted his own car to have many of the R3 bits? I wonder also if Andy's car ever substituted in place at times?

    I do hope MrElmTow does a deep dig on RS1021 because I would love to duplicate its build on another car, give it a strong T-5, do the improved traction Dana tricks (reshuffle the diff clutch packs) and have a fun drag Avanti to match my fun lateral-G Avanti.

  18. Yep Ed, I see.

    So I'm 1025's prior owner's son and just know through what my dad and uncle found in the seventies and eighties. And then my dad and I, have found since 2012 when I wanted to undo my '97 California back road oops.

    Between the Granatelli family developing and using 1025 and my dad purchasing it, one Bill Alderman, a So. Cal. engineer who was laid off and moved to Nor. Cal. took 1025 and sold it up there, where my dad came upon it. Bill apparently got into a fender-bender crunch involving the right front fender. A repair done the old way (riveting a sheet of metal in place and glassing onto it) was undone by me and my dad, and we used the fiberglass repair method Mike Baker exemplified at the South Bend meet in 2012.

    1025 did leave the factory turquoise over turquoise. My mom (dad's first wife) didn't like the car's color so my dad appeased her and made a change. As a kid I referred to 1025 as "Blue Noisy" (while covering my ears) and I was born in '78, so I'm thinking circa '82 (+/-1) it was redone in a Chrysler Charcoal Grey over black interior. It was still inoperable in early 1990 when my parents separated, though it was shown and awarded at a large meet in Seattle, WA in 1992.

    An interesting side note about that Seattle meet. My dad's car, my aunt's Avanti, and a family friend's R2 4-sp. all drove from the SF Bay Area. 1025 would fuel twice as frequently as the two other Avantis. The Granatelli's installed a cam with enough valve overlap that the car spits raw fuel out the pipes.

    My dad and uncle spoke to Vince Granatelli more than a handful of times through the eighties. My dad continued to have contact with Vince, and after one of these phone calls received a return call from Andy Granatelli who, after a bit of a grilling, confirmed my dad had Andy's car. From there the conversation went to spinning the stroked 299 cu. in. engine to 8k RPM, Andy using that car to beat 426 MoPars at Riverside in 1/2 mile drag races, the aftermarket tachometer strapped to the steering column (even I saw the evidence of a hose clamp on 25's column), the extensive head work on RS1021, and the fuel pressure gauge being mounted [with pressurized gasoline brought into the cabin] under the radio.

    AOAI forum member MrElmTow owns 1025 now and I think he said he plans to open up the engine during the restoration. I wanted to do all of that but I wasn't the car's owner so I had no say.

    63R-1025 is the 25th chassis, the 19th (119) body, and the 21st engine (RS1021) all together.

  19. On 1/22/2021 at 11:16 PM, The Inventor said:

    I was the national account manager for Skytop.  I not only signed franchisees but trained them as well.  I also had a shop in Norwalk, CT.  We had the distinction of being the only shop able to install power moonroofs in Maserati Biturbo's. Anyway I am located north of Boston not really in the sunroof business anymore but if you have an Avanti with a Skytop there is a very good chance I can repair it and have the facilities to fabricate parts.  To address an earlier comment, in the trade a moonroof is a glass panel and a sunroof is metal.

    Oh boy, could I certainly use recent contact with you? My '85 needs help in the moonroof department and I'd like to go through the trouble to repair and save/keep it.

    I'd also like some advice from the community, re: headliner. All I've seen for sale say, "For cars without sunroofs." Since I have one, should I buy the full headliner and just 'X-Acto' out the part I don't need? Maybe get cute with it by folding over and stitching a seam?

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